help required on 1911 byf?
 

I’m new to your forum, so hello everyone!
I am trying to find out some info on a 1911 luger that has all original part and matching magazine. The overall condition is excellent. What is confusing me is the markings on the top and side say BYF, what I thought meant it was made in 41, or 42. But the barrel markings say 1911 and the sn from the barrel match all the other parts.
If you look carefully, it looks like the original markings where ground off and BYF stamped over. I am trying to find out some kind of history and value to this gun.
Thanks in advance for any help or direction you can give me. I appreciate anyone willing to share their knowledge.

Flyboy.

Please post some pictures.
Bob

Will post tommorow morning, pics at work.
Thanks
Collin

Collin, from what you describe it is probably not good news. Anything ground off and stamped over pretty much throws the whole pistol into the shooter catagory. This affects the value..
Look forward to your photo's.

here are the pics
 

Thanks for your help guys.

Collin

Although an Erfurt Crown or DWM that was ground off and replaced by a "BYF" sounds intriguing.
As long as it is not simply a replaced BYF toggle link.

http://img233.imageshack.us/i/p1010267bs.jpg/

Couldt post pics for some reason, Maybe to big.
Here is a link and you can scroll through different pictures.

Collin

Hi,

Your pistol is a so-called VoPo variation. Refurbished P08 pistol, using a combination of old and newly made parts, intended for service with the East-German police (Volkspolizei) and NVA.

So it was originally made in 1911 and then refurbished in 41, or 42?
Does it have any real value given its condition, or is it a shooter gun and I should go have fun with it?

On the one side, left side, , there is a bit of the original stamping still there, perhaps the tip of wings. I dont know if this is helpfull.

Collin

Hi,

The refurbishing was done post-war, around 1953. At that time East-Germany started rearming their police force and border guards (the borders were relatively open until 1961). In 1961, when the Berlin Wall was constructed, another wave of rearming followed, but by that time most equipment was either supplied by Russia or produced at their own facilities.

VoPo pistols have long been regarded as 'shooters', but have started to get more collectible the last couple of years. They are a legit sub-variation, but not as highly valued as P08s in their original condition.

Collin,

I think you have a very nice example of a VoPo Luger.

Not sure from photos, but it's likely that if it doesn't have the original finishes, the refinish work looks well done.

The "byf" was originally put on the toggle by it's manufacturer, Mauser. This was the last of the WW-II German ordinance codes for Mauser. Not sure why anyone ground down the rear of the toggle except perhaps to renumber it to the assembled VoPo pistol.

Your receiver was from a 1911 DWM.

The stampings you see on the right side of the receiver are the Imperial German proof and acceptance marks.

When these went through the East German rework process, they were re-stamped with matching numbers. This is because each Luger has to be hand fitted, and from that point on the parts need to stay together.

All in all, I like it. I currently don't have a VoPo, but would like one in this kind of condition. You asked about value. I would estimate around $500-$600. I think that they sold for around $400 when they were imported.



Marc

I purchased it from a customer of mine (nice olderly gentleman) and he has had it for the past 46 years.
He has never refinished it in the time he has had it. I knew just enough about lugers to be dangerous and paid $800.00 for it. The 1911 got me excited (ha!ha!). Thought I would take a change due to it excellent condition.
Thank you to everyone who replyed and was so willing to share their knoledge. I am overweled with all the info you need to know about these guns.

Collin
I am truly greatful.

Hi, if he had it for 46 years, it is one of the pistols that the GDR (East Germany) sold to Interarms for some much needed US Currency. Interarms had no problem buying from 'the enemy' in those days, because the pistols could be passed off as nazi-era P08 pistols. If the state had known that the GDR was the supplier, they probably wouldn't have granted an import license for them.

It just adds to the cold-war experience that these guns represent.

I do not see anything wrong with buying a Russian capture/VOPO refurb Luger. I have just such a P38 and am more than happy with it. While I have read posts about poor finish on some, the few I have seen are refinished quite decently. I don't think the price you paid is too much, considering that it is an arsenal refurbished pistol with a long history. :)