Value and oppinions on a 1936 S/42 I might buy.
 

Can anyone hazard to venture a value on this 1936 S/42? All matching numbers 3899h. Finish is worn to bare metal on typical raised edges and rear of toggle. Some freckling along grip straps. Straw starting to fade to silver-ish. Nice bore. non-matching magazine, and no serial number on the inside of the grips, though there is some letter proofs:

http://home.comcast.net/~gunspotz/pi...2/s42_36_1.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~gunspotz/pi...2/s42_36_4.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~gunspotz/pi...2/s42_36_2.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~gunspotz/pi...2/s42_36_3.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~gunspotz/pi...2/s42_36_8.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~gunspotz/pi...2/s42_36_7.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~gunspotz/pi...2/s42_36_6.jpg

From what I see, it looks OK, but I have missed details in the past. Anything wrong?
What should I realistically be willing to pay. I've been wanting a '36 for some time, and this is the nicest one I've found in my price range (seller wants $1400).

Thanks in advance!

Hi Christian, I don't see anything wrong with this gun. 1936 S/42s usually have unnumbered grips. Is the magazine blued or plated? Regards, Norm

Sending it back. Upon receipt the "All matching except the mag" the ad talked about turned out to have a mis-matched toggle pivot pin. Hopefully the return will proceed without issue, and I'll just be out some shipping.

Christian,
That has happened to me a several times. There descriptions (#'s matching) were wrong. In each case I asked the seller to reimburse me fully including shipping both ways. Each time I got all money back. It doesn't hurt to ask.

I agree.

You should push for the full refund. If this gun was advertised as all-matching, it is their problem, not yours. This type of misrepesentation is at best incompetence, and at worst, dishonesty. Either way, it is not someone you want to deal with again.

I found out the hard way what "all-matching" means to some sellers. I tried to buy an "all-matching" black widow rig from a major dealer (who this forum is very familiar with). Turned out that the holdopen was mismatched, the tool was 63-proofed, and the second magazine was actually marked "made in Italy". None of this was pictured in the images or stated in the historical fluff that this seller includes on his website.

A heated discussion ensued, and because the gun was on layaway, he refused to give me a full refund. He kept $500 for the "inconvenience" I caused him.

Always ask about the grips, rear toggle pin, and holdopen when contemplating a purchase. These are the parts that are not routinely pictured. And never put an item on layaway. This forfeits your three-day inspection.

One of my collecting buddies always told me, "You're not a collector until you get taken at least once." It's official, I am a collector.

Just my two cents.

Doug

Doug,
How about a name? It will help others to stay away from this guy.
Tom

Hard for me to understand how a pistol in that good of shape could keep all its matching parts together except the toggle pivot pin. A part that should never break or wear out. But then who knows. c

I must be abnormal or to old. If the price is right,( or ask for a small reduction) a mismatched toggle pin would not stop me from purchasing. I doubt if the owner ever noticed. I think we expect to much from these old firearms. Just my two cents. Bill

Bill, the note I sent the seller informing him of my decision did include a counter offer to keep it for a reduced sum, but I was looking to pay a premium for what was advertised as an "all matching" collectible piece. I've had eight or nine nice Lugers over the years, and all but one were all matching. Despite the increase in their values over the years, I'm not going to pay a full premium price for a mismatched pistol no matter how relative the values have become. I have lots of firearms, and the passion I have for Lugers in particular is dulled enough from experience, that I can be picky. :)
We'll see if the seller bites at my reduced offer or not. I'll post the results. They were closed today (Monday) so I'll probably hear from them in the A.M. (Hopefully).
-Chris

Tom/Bill:

I don't want to name names. But this gentleman is a major dealer not located in Texas, Minnesota, Illinois, or Ohio. I will also tell you it is definitely not FGS. I have purchased at least 15 guns from Doug and Ken. Not one was misrepresented and I have been extremely satisfied with every purchase. As a result of my past experience, I will not deal with anyone but FGS.

Bill:

I agree a mismatched toggle pin would not preclude me from purchasing a gun if the price was right. However, if the gun was advertised as "all-matching", I would not be happy to find out the toggle pin was mismatched after the transaction was made. Maybe it was an innocent mistake, but a seller that does not notice this is not someone I would want to deal with.

In my case, the seller represented himself as having "35 years of collecting experience". When an "all-matched black widow rig" from this seller arrives with a mismatched holdopen, a 63-proofed tool, and an after-market spare magazine, it is fraud, plain and simple. This kind of unscrupulous business practice is a disgrace to our hobby.

My point is protect yourself when purchasing items on the internet. Consider paying the extra 3% and use a credit card. The credit card company has the power to make things right in the case of a dispute, you don't. Don't put an item on layaway unless you have seen the gun in person or you have a good relationship with the seller.

Thanks for reading.

Doug

Doug/Cris
I think we are all pretty much saying the same thing. One word of caution on using a credit car, some dealers charge a restocking fee if bought with a credit card and returned. This cost me $150 on a return to Simpson's. Bill

How much would the price be influenced by the toggle pivot pin being a bad number? I just purchased a 1936 advertised as all matching and the seller, after I won the bid, said he had never looked inside. I'm looking for a price reduction. The deal went thru a gun shop that I think I can put some heat on if not made right.
Thanks for your help.

Does the toggle link pin bear a number that does not match the other numbers or is it just blank and smooth on both ends. If it's that big a deal, take the pin to a gunsmith and have him bang home any number of your choice.

We do not boost collectable pieces in this way. If the gun is ever sold again the new buyer is getting a fraudulently matched gun.

Hi Jack, As to your question, I think it depends on the gun's condition. If you're talking about a high end collectible, say $2,000 plus, I think you would take a huge hit, as much as 25%. If a border line shooter at under $1,000, little if anything. Regards, Norm

This business of all-matching numbers on guns opens many doors to dishonesty. Years ago when I collected WWII U.S. small arms, I knew a fellow who went around buying up inexpensive non-original Garands and carbines. He would disassemble them and pair up the matching trigger assemlys, receivers, etc. ala Winchester, Springfield, International Harvester and sell them off as original issue at a premium price. An original issue Garand or carbine is almost an impossibility, since almost all of them were wartime arsenal reworks. So, why were the Germans any different? Maybe a lot of so-called matching Lugers are arsenal reworks or just plain "gotcha" guns put together by an enterprising crook.

Zamo

I do have a all matching except mag 1936 in great shape right in your price range as stated above if your still looking PM me.

This gun had a mismatched number on the toggle pin. I got the seller to knock off $ 300 for that problem. The gun is in good shape with some "blood rust" as described on it. The "blood" appeared to be still on it. I cleaned that all off and now the gun has some bare areas of the bluing. I only have about $600 in it. I'm quite pleased with the gun and the price. Will continue to look for the right toggle pin.
Jack