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ID Help please - pic Heavy
I bought this yesterday, an interesting piece but beyond me as to what it is exactly. Any help with ID'ing this would be much appreciated......
As I plan on selling it , how should I price it ? Thanks ! Here are my amatuer observations: 9mm , 6 " barrel , "Gesichert" at bottom position of safety No Serial number anywhere on the gun's frame or barrel assembly. No Numbers on gun or gun components. None. The only markings on Gun whatsoever are 2 each proof marks vertical (crown over N ) ERMA .22 sub caliber kit installed (Pre War kit ????) ERMA 22 bolt assembly serial # 5512 ERMA 22 barrel/Chamber serial # 5503 .22 Magazine marked 5503 on alloy base Mag appears to have a wooden follower. 1st 20 Pictures: http://i47.tinypic.com/15x4gmd.jpg http://i46.tinypic.com/jtp94h.jpg http://i48.tinypic.com/vnnq52.jpg http://i47.tinypic.com/f28yug.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/2e2e0x4.jpg http://i48.tinypic.com/2ewle6w.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/vn1htg.jpg http://i47.tinypic.com/f3hm2q.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/91gcpg.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/2ztdb20.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/334uql3.jpg http://i47.tinypic.com/dlgtoh.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/2d297kj.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/148gc53.jpg http://i50.tinypic.com/6olj89.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/2bz11c.jpg http://i46.tinypic.com/2nr0nwi.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/nytlxe.jpg http://i48.tinypic.com/wi1s3a.jpg http://i46.tinypic.com/ncgh3d.jpg |
Interesting, it is a 1906 frame, with commericial markings that is missing the original toggle. Older frame that has a 6 inch barrel put onto it, but an approved crown N'd barrel, but not serialed.
The 1906 w/out the 22 adapater maybe $500 (yes I am pretty sure what the frame is) The 22 adapter is probably another $300-$400 Ed weimar_lugers@verizon.net |
Thanks , Ed.
Please tell me if I am seeing this correctly..... (or what is this ?) A 1906 (what.....?) Is it a 1906 1st issue Naval missing its 9mm bolt (toggle?) and a 6" pre WWII ERMA .22 sub caliber conversion ? or am I seeing 3 components .... 1.1906 1st issue Naval Frame (?)- it has no markings 2.Commercial Proofed 6" Naval barrel (?) 3.Pre WWII (?) ERMA .22 conversion And whats with No Serial numbers on the Guns frame and no numbers on its parts? Thanks |
I also responded on the other forum.
I think it's a 06 Navy frame 1st issue unaltered (an 06 commercial wouldn't have a stock lug), and Navy 6" barrel w/ high front sight base . Maybe a rework or put together from military parts. C/N commercial proofs but no numbers??? Maybe a training pistol? |
MFC:
I am pretty sure a 1906 commerical, 1st issue unaltered does have a stock lug. Regards, George PS: Mike, your description above sounds very famialer to one posted on Gunboards! |
George,
The "common" 06 commercial designation would not have a stock lug. I should have been more specific. |
I also responded on the other forum as follows:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The lazy Crown/N predates 1920. The configuration of the gun and the location of the GESICHERT marking would indicate that this is a rather scarce 1906 Navy Commercial. I have no explanation for the lack of serial numbers, as it appears never to have been numbered. I see no evidence of metal removal. There is not even a number on the receiver recoil lug or a witness mark. Very odd. The ejector is broken, which isn't surprising. It should be removed before installing this early type .22 conversion unit. It also appears that the grip safety spring is broken or missing, or that the grip safety is incorrectly installed and didn't engage the spring. |
MFC:
This 1906 Navy has the old style long frame. As per my reference books, not all 1906 Commercial Lugers were made without stock lug. My guess is that the ERMA 22 conversion toggle is post war. Would be interesting to see the other side of the magazine to see if it holds 5 or 10 rounds. Regards, George |
Thanks All !
Looking at the only Luger Book that I have found in my pile of old gun books, (its an OLD one !) "Luger Variations volume 1" by Harry E. Jones Copyright 1959 Published by the author. Autographed by the author to a John B.Beecroft 3/17/60 The picture in the book shows the 2 C/N proofs on the barrel/reciever. Anyhow, on Page 95 shows 1906 Naval Commercial I shall try and type out the entire comments..... "Comments: Also referred to as the 1904/06 Naval Commercial. I do not believe these Lugers were produced in 7.65mm; do not confuse with the 1920 Naval Commercial, i.e., 1906,1908, and 1914 Military Navals that have the Naval proofing(5 & 6) ground off and are re-proofed with the 1920 Commercial proofing(21), some of these 1908 and 1914 Navals will have a grip safety added and the date is ground off the 1914's. ALL 1906 Naval Commercials have a 5 digit serial; the GESICHERT marking is at the bottom of the safety well. The concentric rings are on the magazine bottom peice without proofing and serial.A much sought after variation, usually only found in advanced collections. Here are some more pictures of the magazine .The aluminum bottom is serialized to the barrel of the conversion unit. Much Thanks to all for the help and input..... Now Where to find correct bolt toggle Magazine for this !!!!!! http://i50.tinypic.com/xaux3b.jpg http://i49.tinypic.com/2w659a1.jpg http://i47.tinypic.com/2zoyki1.jpg http://i47.tinypic.com/or8mzn.jpg http://i48.tinypic.com/2rr10m1.jpg |
is this luger for sale ?? zocalo
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Nat, I agree that your photos show a 1st issue Navy frame and barrelled receiver with a postwar Erma commerical conversion unit whose mag is missing the original follower & button. Interesting as parts, but probably worth restoring to it's original military configuration. If you decide not to do it, sell it to me and I will. Tom
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