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-   -   Borchardt w/o reserve on Gunbroker (https://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=22569)

alvin 10-06-2009 06:20 AM

Borchardt w/o reserve on Gunbroker
 
FYI

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=141724411

sheepherder 10-06-2009 09:12 AM

Wow...That's almost a battlefield pickup... :roflmao:

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/1417240...1901784968.jpg

Only Thor could love a Borchardt like that... :p

"Original Luger design"??? Cart before horse!!!...

Did you look at his No-Longer-A-Broomhandle??? :D

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/1416570...1822939046.jpg

I'm happy to say that I have no idea where that grip came from...

alvin 10-07-2009 07:42 AM

Browsing is free.

Just saw a rare "杉浦式" (Sugiura) Pistol on GB. Enjoy.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=141957961

JTD 10-07-2009 08:50 AM

I would not be too ashamed to have that Borchart in my collection. John

alanint 10-07-2009 08:57 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The altered grip on the C96 looks an awful lot like it comes from a Browming 1917 machinegun.

Edward Tinker 10-07-2009 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTD (Post 166286)
I would not be too ashamed to have that Borchart in my collection. John

I would gladly take it too...

:biggulp:

cirelaw 10-07-2009 01:21 PM

Some one should pickup the Borchardt and have Ted restore it. I would be a Wonderful piece

JTD 10-07-2009 01:43 PM

My opinion here is it is a pistol of historical signifigance. One where rarity exceeds condition. I once passed on a 1925 Simpson that looked much the same(sorry Ed) I wish now that I recorded the ser#. Would not suprise me if it looks much better today than then. John

Edward Tinker 10-07-2009 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTD (Post 166314)
... Would not suprise me if it looks much better today than then. John

yes, one reason i hate to see them "restored"......

Sure are a lot of very nice 70-90 yr old lugers at shows....

alvin 10-07-2009 05:23 PM

Just being rare is not enough. If it's rare and people care it's rare, then it's a star.

Love GB, it's gun show everyday. Waiting for the last 15 minutes?

===

No comments on that Sugiura?

===

[Edit] Rarity and condition are not conflicting -- one is X and another one is Y in C&R Cartesian plane, independent to each other. A particular gun is a dot on the plane.

===

[Edit 2] Ironically, low production was usually associated with something negative, e.g., low production capacity, low demand, never pass trial phase, immature design etc, etc. So, although I like them, I have been unable to answer this question to myself -- should I give my credit to the low performer? A successful pistol need volume. It's still a puzzle in my mind.

sheepherder 10-07-2009 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin (Post 166329)
No comments on that Sugiura?

I thought it was a dead ringer for the Colt 1903 pocket pistol, which was 32 ACP...This says 7.65mm, but does not say if straight or bottleneck cartridge...

I have never heard of this pistol, but it looks like it could be unique for a collector...

Chinese do not seem to have made many original designs, preferring to copy other successful configurations instead...

alvin 10-07-2009 07:10 PM

OK. Postie did not know "Sugiura". It's supposed being a famous name in Japanese C&R world. I have a copy of the book that seller mentioned in the advertisement and saw it there. It's considered being a Japanese WWII pistol, but made in China, just like cyq P38 made in Czech is still a German gun :)

conehammer 10-07-2009 10:06 PM

Quote:

Just being rare is not enough.
Thank goodness for folks like you Alvin ( where are the rest of the chipmunks these days?) for if it wasn't for guys like you that have your collecting Cartesian coordinates set to (∞,∞) the rest of us wouldn't get to acquire some great pieces. As you tangentially approach the desired pieces the rest of us can clean up...

And "Ironically, low production was usually associated with something negative, " according to.... who? Is this a general statement or specific to firearms? I'm assuming it is "aimed"
at firearms in particular as it is the subject at hand but it is not a insightful statement for commodities at large. Again I give thanks for folks who believe that....


Jerry

sheepherder 10-07-2009 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conehammer (Post 166340)
Thank goodness for folks like you Alvin ...

Jerry

Welcome to LugerForums, Jerry!!! Glad to see that you made the jump over here, too!!! :D

alvin 10-08-2009 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conehammer (Post 166340)
according to.... who? Is this a general statement or specific to firearms? I'm assuming it is "aimed"

Sometimes, I could have a little bit insight by myself :)

Here is the thinking path. There are two types of rarities. Historical great guns (e.g. Para, Mauser, Browning, Walther, etc.... even Tokarev) have something in common: they were made across decades, they have some variations, they have production volumes, etc. Some variations in the big family are rare today because it's a development stage in its lifespan.

But rarity could come from another direction. Above Sugiura is a typical example, no before and no after, not sure why the production volume was so low, highly unlikey coming from some positive factors. Not saying it's not interesting at all, but definitely this rarity is another type.

To the extreme, here is another example in the cyberspace gunshow:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=142039741

sheepherder 10-08-2009 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin (Post 166349)
To the extreme, here is another example in the cyberspace gunshow:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=142039741

I look at that one and immediately wonder: Why copy features of Mauser M1896 on grips & hammer??? Is the designer trying to invoke warm memories of Mauser broomhandle to his pistol??? Or did he just like those features???

From very low overhang of rear grip frame, I wonder if this pistol shoots very low??? (Or do you have to hold it over your head to shoot it???) :D

alvin 10-08-2009 07:27 AM

Mauser's impact on early Soviet Union pistol, say Tokarev, was obvious, from caliber to lock frame. But regarding this particular one-of-a-kind, I have no idea.

sheepherder 10-08-2009 06:07 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin (Post 166352)
Mauser's impact on early Soviet Union pistol, say Tokarev, was obvious, from caliber to lock frame. But regarding this particular one-of-a-kind, I have no idea.

No idea?!?!? :eek:

Broomhandle influence is obvious!!! :banghead:

Tokarev has no Broomhandle influence!!! It is all Browning!!!

alvin 10-08-2009 06:21 PM

Postie, please read between lines, not just by appearance.

The first gun that I played was a Tokarev (clone) when I was 5. Adult unloaded the gun, and I played the super heavy one in yard. When I saw Broom, I was 7 or 8. A kid older than me stole his father's Bolo wrapping it in quilt and shot one round to the ground in his home. Although I cannot remember much, I cannot forget those two after I grew up.

See my avatar? I am supposed to be the kid on the left :)

===

The 1st time seeing P38 was from Yugoslavian movie. Tito's partisan, Gestapo, and Crotian police shot each other with it. First time seeing a Borchardt was in a museum.... the list goes on and on.

alvin 10-08-2009 07:56 PM

Luger is booming on SimpsonLtd.com. Guns and accessories.

Hope one day Broom could flourish as well. Too few choices on the market. Same items list forever. Viewers are tired of those. Need more so we can look. Current situation is too boring.

====

Also, please list on GB if possible. No reason to put the $$ that you should make into dealer's pocket.


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