sub caliber insert
 

when dad brought back a 1916 luger in 1945, there was an insert with it that appeared to fit into the barrel and lock on the front sight. this piece is composed of a 4 inch tube that fits into the barrel( 22 or 25 caliber?) there is a collar that locks onto the front sight and behind that is two knurled? bands~3/4 inches and a third band `1/2 IN FOLLOWED BY A SMOOTH BAND AND THEN A 1/2 INCH BAND. i KNOW THIS IS NOT A VERY GOOD DESCRIPTION, BUT ANY INFO WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. dAD SAID HE THOUGHT IT MAY HAVE BEEN USED FOR EXECUTIONS , BUT WAS NOT SURE. the pistol was captured iin bavaria. Thanks for your help.
Jerry

The insert your dad brought back was not used for anything as sinister as executions. It is a 4mm single-shot conversion used for indoor target practice. It used an inexpensive low-powered round that would probably break the skin but wouldn't penetrate to a depth to be lethal (unless a really freaky accident happened, and I certainly would not want to be shot with one!). From your description the unit was almost certainly of the type manufactured by Rheinisch-Westfalische Sprengstoff A.G/Weiss located in Nurnberg. It was used by the Reichswehr for training.

I think is similar with this one

my insert doesn,t loook anything like yours. i will try to attach a picture if i can figure out how to do it. thanks fot the reply.
jerry

Jerry, I bet its the type I have, will try to shoot a picture tonight. Mine is a police and I bet your's is the same type, tehy made them for police and for military.

Here is the type I have, the round tube has rifeling in it.

The end piece is Schutzpolizei Berlin.

There is a spring like action as you push it on; unsure if you shot single rounds or used one of those 4mm magazines. The lip at the rear is not beveled like a 45 acp barrel, so it makes me believe that it was placed one round at a time.

BTW, there is not a snap cap or round in the chamber, the end of the rifeled tube pushed up the extractor.


Ed

pictures of my insert (i hope)
 

there should be 5 pictures attached to this message. sorry about the quality of these pictures. please let me know if they came through so i know i did it right this time.

pictures take 2
 

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Weissbrot1 - The first pic looks OK, but you lost the focus for the other four... :(

Your photos confirm that this sub-caliber conversion unit was made by Rheinisch-Westfalische Sprengstoff A.G/Weiss. See page 319 of Eugene Bender's "Luger Holsters and Accessories of the 20th Century". In the last photo it appears that there is some writing on the end of the barrel insert...can you read it?

the writing on end of insert is 15
1700 as written. I have no idea when this unit was manufactured--it was shipped home in 1945 along with the pistol and two bayonets according to the paperwork filled out for shipment to the states.

Weissbrot, this conversion unit is the rarest I know to exist. Some better (much better) photos would be nice.
Regards Klaus

I presume mine is just a normal one then ;>)



ed

Edward, it is not a normal one. I found only 5 like yours in 25 years collecting. But the RWS one is really rare. I never owned one, yes, I never had one in my hand. So, some closeup photos would be nice.

new pictures
 

I hope some of these are better. i will try my sons camera tomorrow.Attachment 8109

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4 more pictures
 

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Here's a scan from the 1936 RWS catalog.

Note the little loading spoon and the construction of the ring.

The RWS barrels were actually numbered to identify the pistol type they belonged to.

Number 15 was the 9mm version, 100mm barrel length and 160mm insert barrel length.

Other numbers were:
Number, calibre, original barrel length, insert barrel length.
14, .30 luger, 95mm, 135mm.
6, .30 luger, 120mm, 160mm.
29, .30 luger, 145mm, 185mm.
31, .30 luger, 200mm, 240mm.
15, 9x19, 100mm, 160mm.
36, 9x19, 120mm, 180mm
27, 9x19, 150mm, 200mm.
16, 202mm, 240mm.

Weissbrot, nice, nice, very nice. I wish it would be mine! I still have 12 different conversion units in 4mm and picked on one day from a local gunsmith more than 60 units in 4mm but I never saw one like yours before and I know only of two others of them here in Geramny. Really great stuff. Thanks for showing.

klaus, you are welcome. Thanks to all for their information and enlightenment on a very interesting piece of history. i just wish that information for a bayonet was as available. I think one of the bayonets i have was used in the american revolution by one of my ancestors. He was a Hessian and fought on the wrong side. after the war he remained in america. even the expert? at the quartermaster meuseum in 1964 was unable to furnish any info. thanks again to all. it is good to have somewhere to go to find such a knowledgable group. jerry

Bump! :)

Now that it's ~5 years later and I've seen [pics] of other sub caliber inserts, I can see this one is very different. :thumbup: