Questions on 1900 America Eagle (test?)
 

Any help would be appreciated here as I am a 98k collector and not a Luger expert.

American Eagle - 1900, SN 7633. No Germany stamp on front face. All matched with un-numbered grips and firing pin.
About 90% overall with some inner grip wear.

Question 1: Is this considered a test eagle?
Question 2: Lack of numbers on grips and pin correct?
Question 3: Rough value

Thanks.

Bruce,
You will get a number of replies here, let me be the first. Welcome to the forum. The generally accepted serial range for test eagles is 6100 to 7100, but several on this board would give a broader range of 5800 to 7800 and consider it a potential test piece if it lacks the "Germany" stamp. The only pistols universally accepted as test pieces are those that are known to be from the Bannerman purchase from the US government in 1906. These include serials
6176-6196
6282
6361-7108
7147
One of the gentlemen who will chime in is Dwight Gruber. He has compiled an extensive listing of these pistols... See:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ght=Test+Eagle
The placement of serials on the pistol would help in identification, and photos would be superb. As to value, depends on what you have and I will leave it to those who follow to speculate, but you will get the most accurate assessment by posting photos first. Again, welcome.

Bruce,

Welcome to the Luger Forum, indeed!

Your 1900AE is in the database. Tim is quite right about the Bannerman guns being the only verifiable U.S. Test Eagles. I am very conservative in my determination of potential Test Eagles, and opine differently from many other collectors. It is documented that DWM delivered 1,000 model 1900 American Eagles to the U.S. Army. There is no documentary basis to assume a 6100-7100 range, and the Usual Authors tend to cite slightly different ranges from each other. Although the lack of a GERMANY stamp is usually cited as one of the Test Eagle characteristics, the pistols in the range from sn 5978 to sn 7976 are found without the GERMANY stamp. You will find a detailed assessment of the situation at http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=17706.

It would be great to see pictures of your gun, and to know where the serial number is stamped on the takedown lever--the right end, the left face, or the bottom edge?

--Dwight (chiming in)

1900 Luger
 

I will get pics uploaded on Wed after arrival in hand.
I really appreciate the feedback here - first class group.

I don't believe that we can rule out, that some M1900AEs may have been sold to other than the US market. Since only the US required the "Germany" marking, this may not have been applies to these. So it's a big assumption to believe that any M1900AE without the Germany is a US test luger. TH

Tom, I agree with you, but I have always felt that the American Eagle was placed on the gun for a reason; for the American market....

I didn't say the presence of an eagle and lack of a "Germany" stamp made it a test eagle, only potential. With what appears to be no broad agreement among even the highly learned group here as to what constitute a test eagle if a pistol falls outside the Bannerman range, I think potential is a reasonable assertion. I have #6312 and when I purchased it a number of years ago, I felt I was buying a "Test Eagle". It has all the other characteristics of a test piece, but falls outside the Bannerman range. Dwight (and others) have done a magnificent job of cataloging these pistols. Some would say my #6312 is a test piece, some not. I think the same generally holds true for pistols outside of historically reported serial number ranges. If it has all the characteristics of a test piece, it could be. I think the best we can say about the 220 or 230 pistols NOT in the Bannerman serial range is a qualified maybe.
Tim

pics added
 

Added initial pics to the post.

Bruce,
Test Eagle or not... she sure is pretty.

Mike B., a member of this forum, has a 1906 American Eagle that does not have the GERMANY stamp... obviously sold in Europe. The lack of the GERMANY stamp cannot determine a test Eagle.

Does Mike B's AE have proof marks? It takes a combination of no GERMANY and no proofs for a Test Eagle.

Ron,
The AE Mike C. is referring to is an '06. It is proofed with lazy N but no "GERMANY". We had a discuusion about the Luger a few years back on this forum. Please search this thread "9mm American Eagle NO GERMANY"

Mike

Thanks Mike. I was pretty sure it was proofed but I couldn't remember if it was Crown/N or BUG.

Ron,
Any new thought as to why no "GERMANY"?

Mike

Only two thoughts come to mind...a worker bee forgot to stamp it and it came to the US in a lot with other AE Lugers and was overlooked...or it was sold as a novelty item in Europe (surely someone across the puddle with sufficient disposable income wanted an AE just to be the only kid on the block that had one) and therefore it didn't require the export stamp.

Some Schnellfeuers, 1930s having Hanzi "Germany Made" and some Astra 900s having Hanzi "Spain Made" on the guns. Those characters were applied in factories as well. The planned target market was clear, but a fraction of them were actually not sold to China, they were re-route to other buyers. Could same be true for some 1900 AE? .... the Eagle is there because the planned target market was US, but it were sold somewhere else, so no "GERMANY" added. One possibility?

Since no one answers Q2 "Lack of numbers on grips and pin correct?" so far, I will give it a try. It's also a learning oppertunity for me. Experts please correct me if I am wrong:

The two grip panels are supposed to be numbered "33". The firing pin and magazine bottom are not numbered.

====

bruce -- If possible, could you show the inside of the grip panels?

To avoid damage the edge of the grip screws, you can use a penny with edge sanded down to appropriate thickness as a screw driver. It's softer than the screw and it's wide enough so it won't cause any damage. That always works for me.

and those numbers on the grip panels can be a real bugger to see...

So far, I have seen three forms: (1) unnumbered; (2) numbered; and (3) star inside a circle.

Page 412 of Central Powers Pistols says "Grips: Checkered walnut".... but it did not mention number..... I assume that implied they were not numbered on TE.

Anyway, I have a numbered example here. s/n 10142, GERMANY marked in front of the frame. Looks perfect.

The grips of all "old model" 1900 Parabellums are, properly, numbered.

--Dwight

Bruce,
I have been tied up with other things and have been away from this thread for a while. The other members have given you great information and there is little I could add. Your Luger is one of the Bannerman purchase guns and therefore is unquestionably a test trials piece. It is not unusual for a Test Luger to have mismatched parts. Some were cannibalized, either by the Army to keep the guns in service or by Bannerman to make them functional for resale. Your Luger is in very nice condition and from what I can tell from the photos probably has not been refinished.

Either my memory is faulty or some of the foregoing thread has been deleted or edited. I seem to remember that you were also going to be recieving a holster at a later date. It will be interesting to see what it turns out to be. If an original Test holste it is quite valuable as surviving examples are rare. If I am remembering correctly and if the holster looks like the one below, pictures of it will be greatly appreciated.