Black Widow?
 

Hello,

Could someone explain what is different in it (besides the Mouser manufacture?)

Thanks,

Looks like this question does not take an expert, so I will try.... in short, it's a sub-variation of wartime made Mauser.

It had "byf" code stamp on the toggle link, the year on chamber was either 41 or 42, the grip panels were made with black plastic. Some byf 41/42 had walnut grips, those are not "black widow", it must have black plastic grips + byf 41/42 to qualify that title.

Looks like the one I let pass decades ago could be a Black Widow...

I didn't pay any attention to the brand/numbers in it, but it had black plastic grips - ugly to my eyes.

Thanks,

I don't have a black widow, but I have a few Mausers in salt blue. I think "ugly or pretty" is just personal taste. In my eyes, salt blued gun is always less attractive than rust blued gun. Salt blued gun does not hide different hardness in steel, and many of them show "soy sauce" type of color. Anyway, as long as it's factory, it's still excellent.

Remember, it is not a true variation, it is simply a Mauser that had black grips on it instead of wood grips. NO OTHER differneces.


Ed

Black Widow is a term coined for a marketing tool.

Years ago, the BYF 41s with darker finish, black grips and black mag bottoms were distained by collectors.

"Real collectors" wanted nice navys, DWMs, etc.
Unit marks, double dates, and Nazi pieces were of lesser consideration.

The BYF 41s were the bottom of the list.
I turned up my nose at several "in the day."

A few years ago the term " Black Widow" was coined by a certain dealer and the race was on.

A similar phenomenon can be seen with the recent popularity of "Last Ditch" really crude Japanese rifles.

There is a fine line between a hobby and a mental illness.:evilgrin:

MikeP
 

You know, even not intending to have more than one piece in my collection, I think I have a real collector spirit!

Plastic grips are ugly! :soapbox:

I like the black bakelite grips, they look great on Lugers. The wooden grips look nice too, when it doubt buy both :)

There is something about the all black Luger, with the plastic bottom fxo mag. It is very stylish!

Luger in a Tuxedo?

Well, since it's a collector assigned nickname, I call it "black beauty". It has a character. If I have a chance, I will buy one. Beware repro grips are popluar in this type.

It would seem like we collectors would get away from this meaninless designation. As long as we keep using it, it will continue. Bill

Bill, couple of years ago, i was really "hot" on debunking this, made comments about it a LOT, just made me look pissy and negative (I felt), so i got away from it.

but I figure if I make slight comments / corrections like the above.... it helps.

Ed

When I hear "Black Widow" I think "Tanker Garand", "Durganov Style Sniper", etc etc..
I always think here comes a higher price when I ask how much. I've had a few converations at the shows about the nature of certain terms that tend to drive a price up but, have never had any luck bringing them down any when they think they had something "rare" that should fetch a higer price.

I don't even bother anymore I just ask how much then laugh and move on.

I agree with you Ed I think we should gently steer other collectors away from these terms.

My vote is for Jabby.

Just A Black BYf

If collect only one Parabellum..... 1900 cannot be wrong, or 1908 1st issue. Just an opinion from my taste.

Really? I haven't been following Japanese rifles much, but I have a nice Type 99 "Last Ditch" that's been sitting in the basement since Dad brought it back from the War. It is CRUDE. I haven't taken any pictures of it, or put it on my website, but now I just might have to. From what I remember, the rear sight is a block of metal with a hole in it that slips around the barrel...The machining looks like it was done by kindergartners with files and rasps.

This also reminds me of how years ago CYQ P-38's were the least desireable, now they seem to be the hottest commodity.
It is funny how "hype" works, when the bottom of the barrel comes into view, those spoiled apples at the bottom start to look pretty tasty!

Hehe i agree about the Tanker Garand and Black Widow comment, how these fantasies grow over time :D Personally, i really dont mind the black widow lugers, they look really 'mean' and dark somehow, like a black widow spider i would suppose. I much prefer wood grips also, but hey, give me a mint, matching, widow, with original grips, and i sure as heck wouldn't turn it down :D

Some like wood and some like black plastic and I am lucky to have both. Amazing how the black plastic grips push the price way, way up!

George

I bought a '41 byf with black grips ten years ago. I almost passed on it because of the plastic grips but they grew on me and the pistol itself was almost like new. Just couldn't walk away from it and am very happy with it. The term Black Widow doesn't bother me at all, with that deep black salt blue, black grips and magazine and Nazi markings the nickname just seems to fit.