Help! Got a line on an AE
 

Hi all,

I got a line on an American Eagle and would like to ask some help deciding whether to buy it. Details:

Serial #2029

All matching
.30 cal., 4 3/4 in. bbl
1900 frame, toggle, receiver
SN on front of frame, under barrel
Stamped GERMANY under SN on frame
NO PROOFs, at least that I could find (I didn't strip it)

Has lost blue through holster wear (on the receiver and bbl) and use (on the grip straps). My inexpert estimate is 80% blue remaining. Bore is surprisingly good. Grips are worn (almost smooth in some places) but retain the checkered pattern throughout. (In short, it's far from mint but not unacceptable).

Mag is bright aluminum with black bottom and no markings at all.

According to Kenyon's book, this would be a rather early example. And the lack of any proofs is OK too.

The guy wants $1995.

Help! I really want to acquire an early Luger, but I'm far from an expert. Can anyone advise me, is this a good price or not?

Thanks much for reading and your help.

Weasel

Nice find. That is a very early AE. No proofs is absolutely correct, but it probably has a small Swiss cross on the left side of the barrel. Did you check for matching numbers on the small parts? The magazine is incorrect, should be a wooden base commercial with no serial number. In the condition you describe the price may be a bit high, but perhaps the seller is charging a premium for the early serial number and with today's prices it probably isn't a bad investment. Please let me know if it does have the Swiss marked barrel (need the info for my data base - thanks).

P.S. - Photos too if you can:)

Thank you Ron
 

Thanks for the info. May I ask, what is the significance of a small Swiss cross on the lhs of the barrel? I didn't see one but I could have easily missed it.

Thanks again.

Weasel

Observation of 1900 American Eagle Lugers suggests that the first 200 AE Lugers were furnished with Swiss proofed barrels...probably an over-run from the Swiss contract. Recorded information on serial numbers 2019, 2021 and 2070, which bracket your find, have Swiss proofed barrels, so the probability of 2029 also having a Swiss barrel is pretty high.

After checking around on the Internet, it appears that the asking price is reasonable given that is all matching (except for the mag). Let me put it another way...if I was not retired and had a steady income I would buy it (subject to a 3-day inspection). Of course, I am a bit of a nut when it comes to early Lugers, so take that into consideration :).

Ron -- I am confused on the "flaming bomb". Is it always there on 1900 AE? Or, it only appears in certain s/n range?

The "flaming bomb" is an inspector's mark and may or may not be present on 1900 Lugers. It is most predominantly found on U.S. Test Trial Lugers but is not exclusive to that group.

Oh No! I Bought it!
 

Well, I bought the American Eagle. And Ron, you are correct, there IS a Swiss Cross stamping on the lhs of the barrel about 1 cm from the receiver. And, on closer inspection, the mag bottom is not plastic, but wood, as it should be.

But the weird part is this: the pistol has flaming bomb proofs on the inside. I saw them as soon as I stripped it down. Found four so far:

Frame - in the "well" or depression just behind the take-down lever, top of bomb facing front;
Side plate - on the inside of the "tongue" extension, top facing rear;
Reciever - in front of the locking lug, top facing front; and
on the top of the right side frame rail just before where the rail "steps up" to the rear, top to front.

But wait! There's more! On the left-hand side of the locking lug is the number 0, on the right is the number 1.

Experten, bitte, what does it all mean? I thought commercial AEs weren't U.S. military proofed. And what's with the 0 and 1 numbers? Anybody know?

Well, I'm glad I got it, even though it's a bit out of my price range; buyer's remorse will probably set in later. But for now, it looks great next to my byf42. Alpha to Omega, sort of.

Thanks.

Weasel

Weasel -- Picture please! I love Lugers with bolt lock!

The following is a US Government flaming bomb proof circal 1918. There are other marks on lugers that may not be ordnance markings

Congratulations, I'm pleased that you got it! The "flaming bomb" is a DWM inspectors mark and not a U.S. military ordnance mark...it has nothing whatsoever to do with U.S. proofing. The 0 and the 1 are assembly/inspector's marks.
Photos ASAP, please!

Ron, thank you for the definitive answer on that.

Weasel, As you can see when comparing the luger markings to Heinz's photo of a true US ordnance "flaming bomb" that, as Ron has stated, yours are just DWM inspector's markings. IMHO, this inspector's mark is acturally the zodiac symbol for Taurus, an upturned semi-circle over a circle. TH

Well I'll be gobsmacked
 

Thanks to all for the explanation for the "flaming bombs". Makes much more sense. I have a Stevens 12ga riot gun with ordnance markings, and those flaming bombs are indeed different from the Luger markings, as the Luger marks are much smaller.

And OK, today I will try to get some photos. If successful, I'll post them tomorrow.

Weasel

Here we go...
 

Attempting to attach photos, wish me luck.

Hey! It worked!
 

Hi all,

Some pics of my 1900 AE. Apologies for the lousy quality, still trying to learn the new-fangled digital camera.

New let's see if I can post more than one at a time.....

W

Worked again! The first four are the 1900 AE. The bad close-up on the interior parts is meant to show some of the ersatz flaming bomb proofs. The pic with the two guns are the 1900 and a byf42. Interesting contrast, one of the first and one of the last.

The pic of the three guns represents the entirety of my Luger lot. The one on the botton is a DWM 1916. What you can't see is the smooth bore barrel and mixed numbers. You can kind of make out the horrible reblue job.

Kind of a sad story about this gun. My father bought it for me in 1964 for $25. My first gun. Now I was as cool as Napolean Solo. The finish was bad, so my father suggested we get it reblued (hey, we didn't know any better). Well, I swear that the gunsmith who did the reblue job must have hated all things German, because it looks like (now, in hindsight) he tried to deliberately buff off any and all markings on the gun! The DWM crest is about half gone, and the 1916 date is visible only if you hold it up to the light just right. Others are either wholly gone or are just shallow dimples.

Oh well. I keep it since it was my first (and, after all, it's still a Luger, ugly or not). Anyway, just thought I'd share that.

Weasel

You might also check this out in our technical info section off of the homepage:

http://www.lugerforum.com/techinfo.html