Bolivian Luger
 

Hi All,

A friend of mine told me that he came across a Bolivian Luger made between 1925 and 1929, which caught my instinct to look it up.
All I could find on this Luger was in Page 11 of Jan C Still Imperial Lugers Book, stating that only 250 were made and listed as 1908 commercial.
I tried to do a search on this forum, but could not find much information. Any information regarding this rare Luger is much appreciated
Thank you all.
Alf.

Alf,

This model is indeed quite scarce. I have seen only two for sale in all the years I have been collecting. It would be interesting to know why your friend has determined that the Bolivian he came across was made between 1925 and 1929.

What little information that is available about this variation indicates it is indeed a 1908 Commercial Model with commercial proofs. Kenyon estimates the date of production at 1909-1910 and his estimate of the total production is 500. I suspect that this is a bit high and Jan Still's estimate of 250 may be closer to correct.

They are not a separate contract series but, based on the serial number range, were drawn from commercial production to fulfill the contract to Bolivia. Perhaps Kenyon's estimate was based on the sparse information available to Harry Jones in the 1950's and the serial number he reported, which was 65470. I am pretty sure that the information that was provided to Harry had transposed the numbers and that example was actually 64570 as all of the other known examples are in the mid-64000 range.

While appearing similar to the Portuguese Luger markings, this very unique variation is the only model with the markings in Spanish. The extractor is marked CARGADO and the safety marking is SEGURO. The chamber is marked EJÃ??RCITO DE BOLIVIA - Army of Bolivia.

I am fortunate to have an example, SN 64575. It has been restored, but I am happy to have it in any condition.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bolivian_left.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bolivian_top.jpg

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/bolivian_crest.jpg

Beautiful restoration, Ron. I also recognize that this Bolivian is in the 1908 configuration, one that you told me pleases your eye at its simplicity and beauty. I have to agree. Thanks for posting pictures of your rare Bolivian.

Ron

Nice rare gun!

When time permits I would love to see the worker marks front and rear frame wells and under the left grip--would be interesting to see if they are similar to the early Portuguese guns. We might better pin the date down.

Also a close up of the front sight showing the serrations might help.

thanks for posting

Vern

What a treasure---really a neat Luger.

Thank You Ron, you are most helpful, your knowledge is a gift to us.
Lugers like the Bolivian make your collection stand out from the rest. I agree, better a restored rare Luger than nothing.
My friend, I think, just put the dates in his mind because the guy that showed him the Luger told him that it was used in the Second World War.
Again thank You Ron for sharing this beautiful rare Luger, which otherwise I think I would never have the opportunity to see.

â??When time permits I would love to see the worker marks front and rear frame wells and under the left grip--would be interesting to see if they are similar to the early Portuguese guns. We might better pin the date down.

Also a close up of the front sight showing the serrations might helpâ?�

Vern,
Maybe you can give us some indication how you can identify dates from wells marks please. That will also be very useful information. Thanks.

Alf.
:cheers:

Ron,

Thanks very much for the pictures.

There are 12 Bolivian Lugers reported in the commercial database from sn 64438-64597. This is an entire range of 1908 Commercials sandwitched between Navy Commercials and 1906 Commercials, and the only other report in this range is questionable.

Walter (The Luger Book) speculates that the range for these pistols is sn 59048-65473. Sn 59299 and sn 65475 are reported as Bolivian, but the identification is not positive.

My own estimation of the date puts the 64000-range guns most likely in 1911. I think that 1910 is just a bit too early, but this is a part of the serial range where there is no good date-point between 1909-1913.

Alf, is there any chance of getting a serial number and detail report of your friend's gun?

--Dwight

I will try and contact my friend and see if he is willing to give me the serial number .:)
Alf.

Alf

There is not a positive method to determine date of production from worker marks, but one can compare locations of similar worker marks on dated or known contracts. Worker marks and hidden inspector marks are a very misunderstood and under studied part of our hobby, it has only been recently with the internet and digital cameras that we have been able to gather official data.

Worker marks are defined clearly as the letter B through Z but we find much more than these letters on our guns, we still have a lot to learn. For example the circle triangle inspector mark is commonly referred to as the Portuguese Army acceptance stamp but it also appears on 1902 carbines, is this just a coincidence maybe maybe not, the early "shield" barrel inspector mark is also found in the front frame well of guns produced as late as 1912.

I believe that if we categorized worker marks we could eliminate most if not all the fakes currently on the market--how great that would be to reset the clock!!
Sure it would not be long before they learned the trick but imagine being able to buy a 1914 Navy or one of the rare Lugers without fear of getting ripped off!

Worker Marks suffer from years of bad press, I have been refused data on several occasions because it was felt that it was a waste of time. We have a tool to use against the fakers and we are not using it. We are our own worst enemies.

I am rambling on :)

Vern

Thank you Vern. But I believe that you and all other members in this forum are contributing a lot to achieve what you have just said, Thank you All.
:)
Alf

Ron thank's for sharing that treasure.

Agreed, that is perfection!