Just bought a Persian Artillery and good reference book
 

I have long collected Class 3 guns, but now have most of what I want. I have always been interested in stocked pistols, especially the Artillery and C96, so now I've turned my attention to those. I recently purchased the Persian Artillery auctioned at the James Julia auction of the Bruce Stern collection. I thought the Persian was a good place to start. I also purchased a first gen Snail drum for Ralph Shattuck. It's already been to the range and what an absolutely neat gun to shoot!

I also purchase as many reference books, original manuals, etc as I can find on the guns I collect. Three good purchases I'd highly recommend for any collector

Luger Artiglieria - Mauro Baudino. In Italian but many great pics all w/ English subtitles. If you read Spanish, it's not that different from Italian, so the text is easy to translate, although I really bought it for the pictures which are very informative.

Lugers at Random - Charles Kenyon, a great visual reference guide.

Central Powers Pistols - Jan Still. I'd never had one of his books before. What an impressive piece of work! I'll be buying more of his books.

Pics of the Artillery for your viewing pleasure - and yes, the pics are very true to the actual condition.

Needless to say, I'm now hooked

Welcome to the Lugerforum Jerry ... you have it pegged... you have been assimilated... resistance was futile. We would love to see your class 3 guns as well in the Off topic forum...

Hello Jerry,

There is no cure for 'Lugerites'! Collecting stocked pistols such as the Luger and Mauser C96 pistol/carbine is very exciting indeed, but it can also become quite expensive. You should make a list of the items you are seeking and do not hesitate to ask for the advice of some experts on this forum.

In addition to collecting the pistols, it is also entertaining to add the accessories and original literature to build a set. However, the prices of original literature and accessories are becoming rather expensive.

Happy hunting,
Albert

Jerrys,
you got my Persian artillery!!!! Thats the only artillery that I am missing in my collection. They're too expensive for me now that the stock market has destroyed my collection of money. Did you get a matching mag?
Big Norm

Norm - mag is a Persian mag, but not matching numbers. Everything else on gun matches.

Jerrys,
don't let the unmatched mag bother you. Its very common among the Persian mags and stocks. Try converting the numbers by comparing what you have with the numbers on the rear sight. There aren't very many Persians out there but it is possible to find a match and then maybe work out a trade. The Persians are kinda unique among Lugers in that they were originally held by government people in the middle east and it was the exporter/importer that separated the stocks and the mags during the export process. You could get lucky. That is something that I could not say about other Lugers. Anyway, you have nothing to lose and looking is free. Good luck.
Big Norm

I have Persian mag # 3975 k (over) + (over) DE63.....however being Farsi you would read the numbers right to left.....not for sale but would look at trading should this fit you gun

Jerry --

Welcome to the forum. Are you the Jerry on nemo's site? One Jerry contributed to Erickson's classic book, one Jerry collected ton's of CHs, .... and you're the 3rd Jerry that I've heard collecting brooms.....

I have mag numbered in Farsi 345 if that matches. My LP08 is numbered 3729.

George....a PM was sent

I need 67 and 3068. I have 1553, 2196, 2506 and 3389. Will trade.

Regards Ken D

Hello Jerry,

In view of the fact that the serial numbers on the Persian Lugers are in Arabic, it is necessary to read the serial number from right to left (backwards).

Big Norm, I am afraid to inform you (and many other collectors including myself who own a Persian LP-08 rig) that the rig (stock/holster/straps/magazine pouch) are replicas that were made in Pakistan before they were offered for sale by a British dealer. The smell of the leather is pungent (smells like goat skin) and the quality of the rigs (including the stitching) is sub-standard as compared to German stitching. When you compare a Persian rig with an Imperial rig, why should the quality be different when Germany was not at war in the early 1930's when they had received a contract with Persia? If we carefully examine the standard of quality and workmanship that was produced at the Mauser factory before WWII, this ****ty type of stock/holster rig (the stock is not even walnut wood) would have never been allowed to be added on a LP-08 Luger made at the Mauser factory and sold to a foreign country. All firearms made by the Mauser factory were of the highest quality and the Persian Luger is no exception. I would like to give credit to George Anderson who pointed out this information to me and I totally agree with his opinion. I have yet to examine a Persian LP-08 rig which is absolutely complete and correct and not even one with the magazine pouch containing spare magazines (with the same matching number).

I must admit that we collectors learn new information/knowledge everyday and it is also necessary to learn about the heritage and discipline of Germany factories during both World Wars and the years in between.

Albert

Persian Lugers are in Farsi, and not Arabic.

Hello Policeluger,

You are correct that Persian Lugers are in Farsi (and not arabic), but if I am correct, this language is read/written backwards.

Albert

Is it known if Persia purchased complete rigs; i.e. did they come with stocks and holsters? And if so, did the British supplier just fill the gaps of what was missing?


Ed

Albert you are correct above.

Hello Edward

The first time I heard comments about the leather on the rig, it was mentioned that the leather was possibly from pigskin, but how could a manufacturer sell a product made from a pig to a Muslim country whose people dislike pigs? When I eventually chatted with George on the subject of Persian rigs, that is when he told me that the holster was likely made of goat skin, and it sure does smells like goat!

I suppose that the LP-08 rigs where supplied to Persia with rigs similar to those equipped with the Imperial LP-08 Lugers. I have no explanation why a single rig has not yet surfaced which appears to be original and correct. Did the Mauser factory sell the LP-08 model without a rig, and was the pistol suppose to be equipped only with a belt holster made of leather? A possible theory - when Mauser supplied the Persian contract, the company may have had extra barrels left over in inventory from WWI and the Weimar period (do not forget about the Stoeger Lugers as well) and decided to use these spare barrels to fulfill a contract for the P-08 and LP-08 models, both these foreign sales occurring around the same time period (1934).

The item on the rig which is a 'dead giveaway' that proves that it is not of German manufacture or origin is the magazine pouch - everything on it is wrong from the closing strap to the leather loop on the rear of the pouch for mounting on the strap. Furthermore, the construction of these magazine pouches are s*** and they would have never been produced by a German leather workshop. When these rigs were made in Pakistan, I suppose that the British dealer had asked a Pakistani workshop (which could make anything for cheap prices) to follow a design/concept based on an Imperial German Navy rig (notice the carrying hook on the strap) for the Persian rigs, which as we observe, was NOT used on a LP-08 pistol which was originally made/designed for Army use. It is very likely that the British dealer was just filling the gap for what he thought was missing. Considering that the British have had good business relations with Pakistan, it was a good choice to have the rigs made in Pakistan which is close to Iran. Notice that the so-called rigs have the serial number stamped on the wood near the attaching iron which in also wrong. If the Mauser factory was able to stamp serial numbers on the pistols, therefore, they should have been able to stamp a serial number on the attaching iron itself - no exception to standard practice.

Returning to the topic I mentioned above regarding the Stoeger Lugers, the LP-08 model was not sold with rigs, but the rigs were listed as accessories which might have come from German military surplus, or offered by an American company such as Pacific Arms.

Albert

Hi Albert,

Good points, although I would like to add a remark about the early 1930s German workmanship for Mauser contracts. As you know, the Dutch Navy ordered their P08 style pistols with P08 style holster from Mauser. The first batches of holsters were of a shoddy, bad workmanship and the Mauser guys were pretty content that the Dutch inspector accepted them even with the poor quality clearly visible.

Gentlemen, When I eventually chatted with George on the subject of Persian rigs, that is when he told me that the holster was likely made of goat skin, and it sure does smells like goat!

George Anderson knows more than I ever will about Artillery Lugers ad infinitum. With that said... I have to believe these holsters are NOT goatskin. The skin of various animals varies in thickness. Even on the same animal the skin can vary considerably.
Goat is simply too thin. Even the much larger deer & Elk are quite thin and much too p[liable for hardshell type holsters.
The smell associated with these Persian/Pakistani holsters may be the tanning process used.
I am not sure what animal was used, perhaps Camel is more likely. I know one thing..it's not goat.
Jerry Burney

Hello Jerry,

If the holsters are not of goat skin, you might be right that they are made of camel skin and the tanning process was different. One thing for sure - I highly doubt that the leather on the Persian rigs are from a cow which leads to the fact that the rigs were NOT made in Germany. Therefore, my point still stands that these rigs are likely replicas.

Thank you Jerry for your input.

Albert