WW1 Aviation P-08s???
 

I am a big fan of Military aviation during the 1st World War. I know very early in the war, each sides observation pilots would just wave to each other. Later they took aloft pistols and rifles to shoot at each other before machine guns became mounted. There are Navy Lugers, Artillery Lugers and the like, but has anyone ever found a Luger issued to a German aviation unit? I have a book account of one observer shooting at a French plane with what I believe was a Artillery Luger. Surely many pilots carried them as personal sidearms. Any stories out there or Lugers found with aviation unit numbers stamped into them. If so, it must be a prize for sure!
Thanks,Bill

Joachim Goertz wrote quite a bit about this in his 'Die Pistole 08', including a photograph of an airman posing with a stocked LP08 in his aircraft.

Orders to provide air staff with the LP08 were given was early as 1913, as the result of trials with artillery prototypes around 1912.

Thanks G-man. Is this book printed in English?
Bill

Were any unit marks for the Zeppelin or Jasta units?

Bill,

The book has been published in German only at the moment.

Goertz and Wacker indicate markings for Flieger Bataillone as 1.F.1.4. The first numeral is the battalion number and may be from 1 thru 4. They indicate Luftschiffer Batalione as 1.L.1.4. As with the Fliegers the first numeral is the battalion and in the case of Luftschiffer they run 1 thru 5.

I am inclined to believe that the Luftschiffer units referred to are captured balloons rather than Zepplins as the first Battalion was organized in 1884 and the last in 1913.

The authors go on to list T,O&E for all types of units within the Imperial German army in 1914. P08's are the only pistols indicated but make up a very minor part of personal weapons allocated. For instance within a Flieger unit only three P08's were issued versus 83 k98's. The pistols went to the Feldwebel, Sanitaetsunteroffizier and the Werkmeister, one each. In Luftschiffer units the ratio is a bit better for P08's at about two K98 to one P08. Most of the P08's went to drivers (not pilots) the rest to corporals, senior NCO, medic and colorbearer.

I think that the arming of aircraft with LP08's, while real, is all anecdotal. I have a copy of a photo of an observer or pilot in his airplane with an LP08 and an acquaintance knows of a P08 that is marked to a specific Zepplin officer. The latter is in all liklihood the officer's private purchase sidearm.

As many flying officers early in the war were actually observers with NCO's piloting and these observers were typically drawn from the most relevant branches (cavalry and artillery) I think they just brought the weapon of choice with them.

Tac, are you involved with live steam small scale locomotives? I think someone uses the name "Tac" of their forum.
Bill

Tac.
My MLS forum ID is RedBaron. I have not posted for quite awhile. My plans for a large scale Live steam layout are shelfed for the forseeable future. I've had thoughts of selling my three steamers ,Aster Reno 4-4-0, Accucraft Legend 4-4-0 and a Aristo Mike 2-8-2 in order to buy/trade for a couple more Lugers, but the two 4-4-0s are beautiful and would hate to let them go! If right Lugers show up, who knows?
Bill

..........

I just visited today the Deutsches Technikmuseum of Berlin. The ww1 planes and aviation items are exposed in the 2nd floor of the New Building. We can see a special LP08 with a strange wood stock illustrating the well-known photo published in the book by Joachim Goertz (an airman posing with a stocked LP08 in his aircraft). Unfortunately I did not have my camera to take a photo. Some parts of the Lange Pistole seem different from the LP08 we know. and the stock is really strange (iron part very big, wood very thick). I remember that a similar stock was for sale on Ebay a few months ago and was sold for a small price. Maybe it is an early test LP and stock ?
I will try to take some photos the next time I am in Berlin.

christian,
interesting point! looking forward to see this customized stock.

Ciao,
Mauro