Need infor from a unit mark
 

.........

The BG marking is a bit of a puzzle. It looks like it might be a Bavarian Garde unit but I'm not sure what the II.2. indicates. On a holster a Roman II indicates a Bavarian Corps, but I don't know about Lugers.
The other one is easy, Fortress Machine Gun Detachment 9, Weapon #12.

It is odd to see a Luger marked with two entirely different units without having one of them X'd out.

Hi Pat,

F.M.G.A.9.12. = Festungs Machinengewehr Abteilung 9 waffen 12 or Fortress Machine Gun Detachment 9 weapon 12.

B.G.II.2. = Bavarian Garde Battalion II, or II Corps. 2nd company

My thoughts are that the F.M.G.A.9.12. marking was a pre-war or early war unit mark. As it is stamped on the front grip strap according to regulation.

The B.G.II.2 marking was a re-issue mark applied later on when the Fortress MG detatchment was absorbed into an infantry unit. And the F.M.G. mark was not cancelled.

Just speculation on my part. Maybe someone else has a different thought or translation of the marks.

Ron

Holy smokes! I never beat Ron to the draw! I had better go buy a lottery ticket.

Ron,

I had to take a nap. I was thinking again...;)

Ron

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Patrice, just to stir the pudding a bit I will offer a couple of observations. Since the earlier marking (Festungs Maschinegewehr...) is an Imperial army marking and not Bavarian I would figure that the weapon remained within the same military formation. You might want to check and see if it has a hold-open added.

If it remained in the Imperial army system then I would venture a guess that the backstrap marking is "General-Kommando des 2. Armeekorps, etc". I do not think that the Bavarians fielded a Garde Korps. They did have a Leib Regiment in the first Bavarian Corps.

Keep in mind that my idea is just a guess. The Festungs MG unit started out the war in Alsace. The II Korps started out in 1914 in Pomerania. I don't know where either ended up or whether they crossed paths at some time during the war. When I have more time and can get to my library I may be able to track them.

A very cool pistol.

Geo,

You're right again, as much as I hate to admit it. ;-)

I was checking Cron's Imperial German Army ,and thought that I found a Bavarian Garde unit reference. Just checked again and had run two lines together. Bavarian I Korps on one line, and a Prussian Garde unit on the line below.

However, I thought that General-Komandos were in relation to Garde Korps units only? Am I wrong about this also?

Thanks...

Ron

What about Grenadier? (Grasping at straws mode on)

I found something interesting in Jeff Noll's book. He has listed a unit marking. B.F.G. III.36. translated as Bavarian Army Corps III Field Gendarmerie weapon 36.

I assume this would be a Military police unit?

Ron

Feld-Gendarmerie (Feldgendermarie) is indeed Military Police.

--Dwight

I don't think it would be a Military Police unit in the sense that we usually associate with MPs. I think of MPs as garrison police having authority over military personnel, and civilians within a military jurisdiction. The Gendarmarie to me was more like a rural constabulary with government sanction that ranged beyond military bases, a sort of paramilitary organization with general police powers. This is just a guess based on the term "gendarmarie" and the connotation it carries. Somebody that knows what they are talking about please step in here and stop me if I am dead wrong.

Ron,

I've been exploring this topic recently, and this is what I have come to understand.

The German police forces were based on the French "Gendarmarie" system, hence the 'foreign' word. The rural constabulary which you mention--the landes gendarmerie, if you will--became the Landj�¤gerei after the Treaty of Versaillles and the IMKK.

The Feldgendarmerie was the gendarmerie within the Army organization. I don't know if their duties were directly analogous to those we understand of the MP.

As a barracked, paramilitary force, the civil gendarmerie was at times conscripted into the Army to serve as Feldgendarmerie. This was in the Imperial era before WWI.

And if anyone can focus the discussion even further I'd appreciate knowing.

--Dwight