Spandau Anyone?
 

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=5104

I know these are controversial..why would a well known dealer put one of these on their website without a "Buyer Beware" notice?

SteveM

I feel that this type of dealing is very disingenuous and probably outright fraud. Simpson offers no explanation of the pistol whatsoever and asks a modest price.

It seems that he is making a tacit acknowledgement of the dubious heritage of the pistol through his pricing and standing back hoping someone will buy it.

I believe that dealers who do business this way are showing absolute contempt for the collecting community and are working to exploit the new collector or one gun buyer. Please show me where I am wrong and I will retract all that I have written and apologize.

Because they are in the business of selling guns--sometimes, particularly, uncommon or rare ones. Caveat emptor is implied in any transaction involving a Luger--they are under no obligation to do your homework.

A casual glance at Still's Imperial Lugers pp.62-63, 79-80 will reveal just how wrong this gun really is. This, along with the absurdly low asking price, should be enough to warn off any reasonably alert buyer.

(Note, I do not necessarily agree with the 'business is business' stance presented here, but it is the answer to the direct question.)

--Dwight

I am guessing it is a consignment piece and Simpson is passing it through without comment. Most Luger enthusiasts will immediately recognize it as a complete fake, but I do think that it should be advertised as such.

I do think they should "comment" on it though... Say, something to the effect of 'controversial" Spandau.... They'd probably get more money for it as a talking / coffee discussion item too....

Gentlemen all...I know what everyone thinks about Spandau Lugers. I have probably said this before but I had a Luger Mentor..Howie Nickle. He started collecting Lugers during WW2. He found a Spandau Luger in a pawn shop in 1946, directly he returned from the war. If it were not for this I too might believe what is said about them.
I cannot vouch for the Simpson Luger, I have not handled it, but I would like to. I cannot proove anything but I know what Howie told me....He was 84 years old when he died two years ago. Jerry Burney

I'm not up on the older lugers. Just for my own education, what is fake...the "Spandau" stamp?
Bob

I won't say fake, because of what Jerry just said,as I do not know.

I will say, controversial toggle.

Spandau toggles have been shown to be "faked" by using a Erfurt toggle, it is beleived by some folks that a handful, maybe 10 spandaus were made at the Spandau armorery, to see if they could make them to help erfurt out during the height of WW!.


ed

Bob,

By all indications--the receiver power proof and the lack of inspector stamps on the gun--this is originally a DWM.

The Spandau Lugers I have seen pictured are Erfurt origin, and have two extra receiver inspector stamps, as well as some distinctive numbering which this gun lacks. In addition to the questionable toggle stamp.

And with what I have come to understand about how Lugers were manufactured and marked, I can imagine a legitimate--although completely speculative--path for Spandau Lugers existence.

--Dwight

Isn't the toggle (not the center piece) a little too good compared to the rest? ..or can that be right?

I saw a list of lugers for sale recently and on the list was a Spandau with a 2 digit serial number and a price of $10,500.00. Having no interest I was surprised to see Simpsons price, also taken back by the 10,500. I have no clue about these guns.

One thought that I have on this, is that it could end up on the market at some later date. Somewhat "altered" to appear a bit more legitimate.

Ron

FWIW...Dan Metz in the IL area is currently trying to sell his Spandau.

For those new folks who do not see the issues with this Luger... notice in this cropped photo and compared with the rest of the Luger that this toggle link's finish is UGLY compared to the rest of the gun.

Even if this is a GENUINE SPANDAU toggle link... I doubt it could pass as a SPANDAU Luger... See Dwight Grubers comments about the inconsistency of proof marks... I think this is a DWM gun that has had the link replaced with either a REAL SPANDAU link that is number matched or just a out-and-out fake...

I agree with George Anderson that Simpson's should have made more comment than they have... if it is a consignment piece, it should be so stated... along with some explanation about why this type of gun is "controversial"... Just my $0.02

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload...impsonsltd.jpg

They have added it may be fake!!!

I own the Spandau (#27) that Ralph Shattuck showed/owned, with the six known (+1 owner unknown at that time) in the mid 90's.
NAPCA had a show in Odessa Texas. Six of the known 7 were displayed together.
See thread: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...hlight=spandau

Also see these opinions posted in the past at Jan Still's Gun Boards :

http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp...=spandau+luger

The "notorious" Spandau on SimpsonLTD's website has now been sold!

When I checked the web site this morning, it mentioned that this item could not be found - I reckon that he pulled it off his the web site.

Spandau Luger #27
 

I have found out that Steve Fox in Philly has one with bring back papers.
Here is what a real toggle should look like:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/mvc220e_copy2.jpg

All the best to everyone,

Fred Pack
Wilkeson, WA