Is this a "Black Widow?"
 

Pistol is black with unmarked black plastic or bakelite hand grips. Left side
of frame is marked 9239, P.08. Safety is GESICHERT. Under barrel, 9239 y or g (not sure). Top of receiver 41, byf with matching serial number markings. Pistol is all matching. Right side of frame 3 eagles--655, 655, and eagle over circle with Nazi symbol. Mag is black with eagle over 37, FXO (I think) and eagle over 37, then P08.
Is this a "Black Widow?" How is a true one identified?
Any and all ideals are greatly appreciated.
Anyone know of approximate value?

Sound like one to me. A picture would be of great help. The value is highly dependant on the condition. Do you have the holster with it?

Mike

Thanks for the fast reply. Condition is approx 98% (wow). Should the hand grips be marked? Sorry no hoster.

No marks on the grips. 98% is quite a nice Luger. Everyting you described sounds like a true "Black Widow". Except for the question of the grips. Is the mark a circle?

David, there is information in the FAQ, also, be aware there is NO Such thing as a "black widow". There are charecteristics that are shared with these guns that fit a category that was called black widow by american dealers, there is not a true german luger variation...


Ed

What Ed says is true , but the marking you mention are typical of what is called a "black widow"... If the grips look EXACTLY like these, they are very likely original grips and of great value all on their own... the last few pair of these grips that sold on ebay went for $250-$325... At their age, they are very fragile and I would not use them for shooting... just display...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/johnsbyf41.jpg

Is this a Black Widow?
 

The grips are identical to the one in the photo you posted. Wow, never thought I would ever be able to get a true "Black Widow." I know it is really a Luger, byf, 1941, which is black. But the false name used for marketing stuck and those lugers are now somewhat separate from others.
Thanks to all the members for their help and information.

Is this a Black Widow
 

One last question, with SN 9239 y, when was the pistol made? Looking at the letter it is clearly a "y" however comparing it to the Fraktur chart I am really unsure.

Hi W David!! My best guess on the completion date of 9239y, 41 byf is September 1941. That is based on uniform production numbers and could be a month off either way!!

I think I have my camera working right, and the file is correct size. Finally here are pictures of my 41 byf Luger.
One picture I had to lighten up to show stamps on the pistol.
Any ideal of value?

Right side of byf 41 Luger showing a view that is closer to the black color of the pistol.

I forgot to mention that the slight reddish color on the right side is the only place where pistol is not all black.
Comments please.

Looks like a real nice Luger David!

Thank you for your kind comment. This pistol has found a home forever. The art and care used in producing the Luger pistols is a joy to find. To me they are a part of history and provide a way to hold that history in our hands.
Thanks again to all the members of this forum.

it is a nice one, you will likely get the urge for another, and another to "even" out the colelction ;)

Hi David,
You certainly will get the urge to buy another. I bought my first Luger in 1959 and the bug is worse now. Until this weekend, I did not have a "Black Widow" in my collection. I came across this one over the weekend and was able to add it to my collection. It is a 1941 also.
Mike
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/black_widow.jpg

They are my favorite Luger of the Mauser military series after 1937... Nice pistols for sure... the best metallurgy available during the war, and the best craftsmanship on the military guns IMHO.

I also have a special place in my heart for byf Lugers.. They are very nice. Congratulations with it!

Mr. W. David, :bowdown: well, I have a byf coming to me, so let me eat a little crow and I'll join the "black widow" league, my :rolleyes: apologies :surr:


:D
ed

More of a black widowmaker, if you catch my drift.:cool:
Now you guys are getting me interested in these. Let me go see what KrausewerK has under the glass tomorrow.

Russell