More Black Widow Questions
 

Hi another new-be here. About a week ago I bought my first luger - a 1941 byf w/correct black plastic grips (thanks to the great info and pictures from those in the Rogues Gallery), serial number 8xx, z-block about 90-95% with very good bore. It came with one mag marked fxo, 37 mag, black plastic bottom un-numbered and a black (or very dark brown) holster (marked dtu.41, WaA163(?). Said to be a Vet bring-back.


I also bought, from someone else, a loading tool marked 655 with a eagle proof. Concerning proofs on the gun, in addition to several eagle proofs I believe the number proof marks are 655. I paid $800 for the gun w/mag and holster. Does it sound like everything is correct for this luger?


I have two other questions: The grips are a bit loose (does the plastic shrink over the years?)- how can I tighten them up. Perhaps a well-placed piece of thin plastic, biz card, black electric tape. I don't want to cause any damage to the grips or the frame, but I would like to shoot it with secured grips. Second question concerns the holster. Wear on the outer front surface has some exposed leather. How can I properly restore the color to this scratched area and condition the rest of the holster as well without hurting its value? MM

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

There is really nothing that can be done to tighten the grips, or for that matter, nothing should be done. Get a pair of reproduction grips if you want a tight fit for shooting. I would treat the holster with Pecards which will tone down the worn areas. This is normal wear to the holster and appears to match the condition of the pistol.

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

Thank you for the advice. Where is a good source for Pecards and reproduction grips? MM

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

I envy you your Black Widow, and thanks for stating the price you paid. I am presently agonizing over buying a BYF 41 which is conspicuously missing from my small collection. This one is a 99% gun on the outside and 100% on the inside, with the glossiest, most perfect black grips I have ever seen, and the price is $900 firm. It is held by a dealer, so there is tax and transfer fee on top of that. I wonder if he is asking too much, or is it a fair price. Any comments?

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

Aaron, Shattuck and Simpsons BLack widows are generally $1000 and up. They range from 92-98%. Use this as a base to judge price. The real question, is this a very expensive shooter or an honest collection piece. If authentic and in good condition a good price, question is real steal or real rip?

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

If the pistol is authentic and not a redo, then yes, it's worth the asking price.


60 year old pistols that look like new require experience and some salt to discern if they are original.


If the pistol is authentic then it could bring a higher price than what you quote. Such a low price for a 99-100% 60 year old military weapon would really make me think and look. If I couldn't prove to myself that the pistol is absolutely authentic, I'd pass it at that price.


Mike

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

Mike, very well put indeed! Thor

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

Aaron,


I am a newcomer to the world of lugers so I cannot offer any advice. But it sounds like Thor and MK can help. Also, check out previous messages on this board as well as the information sections of this site. Good luck!


mm

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

Aaron, you are in a common predicament, finding a Luger that you just love, wondering if it is a good deal or not. Look at the possible scenarios. 1. Buy the gun and possibly find out it is a messed with fake up

2. DONT buy the gun and wonder if it was the real deal and somebody beat you to a great deal. I do find the price suspicious. Best way to deal with these kind of situations is to be an informed buyer. If you want to buy and collect Lugers you need to learn a lot BEFORE you buy and even before you find a potential purchase piece. Being an informed buyer will at least help you spot a potential problem piece. Does the seller have a good return policy? If not, I would walk for sure. Sometimes I have seen a piece that by hell or high water I want it, regardless of it being authentic, I just like it, but that is very rare! Trying to tell someone for sure if a piece is original from just email is darn hard. Learn what is correct and look for that! Good luck! Thor

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

One hint would be to see if it has an importer's mark on the barrel. If it does, that would tell you that it will not bring as much as a "normal" unstamped gun (I think that it really should not make any difference, but in the real world, it does). It would also suggest to you that there is a good chance, but certainly not a conclusive one, that the gun was refinished by an Eastern bloc nation sometime in its past.


Having said that, I still believe that some import guns sneak in in almost new original condition and that it takes someone with more expertise than I have to determine if they have been reblued or not, especially the later Mausers, like the Black Widow would be.

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

In a situation where there is doubt about the pistol (expensive shooter or collectable steal) the only tiebreaker for someone who isn't sure is to check your supplier. If you were looking at the very same gun and it was coming from someone who's business (Ralph Shattuck, Tom Heller, Simpson,Ltd. just to name a few) depends on positive feedback then you could rest assured that what you were getting would be to your satisfaction.

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

Thanks for all the wisdom you have drawn upon in your responses. The dealer is 60 miles away, so I will agonize a bit more, then will go and strip the gun completely to see if it is really authentic, and if satisfied, will buy it. I will have a 120 mile round trip, then another round trip ten days later to pick up the piece. Buying here in California is very difficult nowadays. It is kind of preposterous that someone with a very hard to get concealed carry permit, plus a background in law enforcement has to go through such shenanigans.

Re: More Black Widow Questions
 

Amen to that!