Fake 1916 Navy on Gunbroker!
 

For beginners only, what's wrong with this gun?
Norm
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/867198655

I always feel like a beginner here, so I'll take a stab. Crown M proofs are spaced too far apart and also, the crown N seems strange. Although, the crowns aren't "floating" over the "M". Plus, it appears the link retaining pin is blued over, instead of in the white.

A 1916 with no chamber date? Backwards C / N ?

G2

I do not see the rear sight adjustable for range

front sight blade is ridged all the way to the top

The "N" is backwards

Come on guys, this gun has more red flags than a Moscow May Day parade!
Norm

Obi-Wan Kenobi,

Please school these many Padawns.

G2

O.K. guys, you did pretty good, not great, but pretty good:

gunbugs, you get a point for the blued toggle retaining pin.

gunnertwo, you get a point for noticing the missing chamber date, but you lose a point for not noticing that the date is missing from the front sight base as well!

Proofed, you get 3 points for noticing that the front sight is serrated all the way to the top not 2/3 of the way up as it should be (see photos). However, I have to deduct a point for not noticing that the base is undated.

How come nobody noticed the commercial C/N proofs? Don't you know that the German for Navy is Marine? Your lucky I'm in a good mood or you chaps would be in negative territory! There is one other red flag but I really didn't expect anyone to get it as it's not in the books yet. The relieved sear bar was introduced in late 1916 and the first 1200 aprox 1916 Navies came without this feature.
Norm

front sight
 

Ther is a date on the front sight base left side. hard to see but there.
And to think i was ready to severely reprimand myself and go to bed with no hot toddy

I believe you are correct, if one stares hard enough at Photo #3 one can just make out the last two digits of 1916, so you and gunner two get your points reinstated. I may be tough, but I'm fair.
Norm

Helping
 

Norm
For as much help as you have given the users of this forum, you can be any way you like.
Thank You

Ok, I know nothing about these, and little about anything.

I looked at that Luger before reading this thread. My impression was that it might be a 1920 Commercial Navy, perhaps tarted up to appear to be a military 1914 model.

The one thing that screamed at me was the "Germany" stamp on front of the frame along with the Crown over N commercial proof on the receiver. I've not seen a military Luger with these marks.

I'm all into points and gold stars. Do I get any? :)

Curl

By the way, the gun was re-listed. Here's the new URL: https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/875487639

Curl

As a followup, I just looked at Kenyon. I know he is considered outdated, but there's a lot of information there.

For the 1920 Navy Commercial, as to proofing, he states: "Nitro proof. Some have military proof, or military AND nitro proof, or NONE."

Of course, he notes it will be stamped "Germany" on the front of the frame, or "Made in Germany."

The photo in my edition is grainy, but it looks to me like the example he features in the book has its front sight serrated all the way to the top. It certainly doesn't have a date stamp on the top of the receiver. Also, his example appears to be without proofs. His does have a relieved sear bar.

So my vote is that the GunBroker gun is really a 1920 Navy Commercial.

JMHO, YMMV

Curl

P.S. Kenyon says the 1920 Navy Commercial is scarce.

Hi Curl,
The "GERMANY" stamp was applied after the war when a lot of military equipment was exported to the US to raise cash. You do get a point for noticing the C/N commercial proof on the receiver but I regret that you forfeit it because you failed to notice the C/N proof on the barrel in the photo you posted.
Norm

Oh well, points are easy come, easy go. But I did see the C/N proof on the barrel. Just didn't mention it. I also saw the military proof stamp on the left side of the barrel.

I still think this gun is a 1920 Navy Commercial.

I'll be the first to say that when the British de-commissioned their military handguns they sent them to the civilian proof house for commercial proof. I haven't seen that practice on de-commissioned German pistols. There are millions of German military Lugers here in the U.S., and I don't recall seeing one with civilian proofs and "Germany" stamped on the frame.

But again, I don't claim any expertise on these. I know just enough to get myself in trouble.

Curl

I think Curl should get at least a half point back since the GERMANY stamp accounts for the C/N on both the receiver and barrel. His observation was mostly to point out the commercial export aspect and not a detailed observation beyond that.
Ron

Being late to the game, I will only point out that the c/Ns are fake.



--Dwight

Well, at least you can buy it with no credit card fee!

Curl