45 ACP Luger model that you want the most
 

HI,

Continuing a topic of a 1905 Luger in 45 ACP.
After talking to my machinist , we decided to go ahead and give it a try . He sad same thing I was thinking. If people did it originally , then people can do it now.

Now here is a hypothetical question:

I was planing on making 5 different variations all in 45 ACP:

1: Baby Luger 5 shot with 3.5 inch barrel
2. US army test model with 5 inch barrel
3. Navy with 2 position navy toggle with 6.5 inch barrel
4. Artillery model with 8 position rear sight and 8-9 inch barrel
5. Carbine with 4 position carbine with 16.5 inch barrel

What model will interest you the most?
What will you be willing to pay for it when it's available?
Do you have any other variations in mind, caliber or configuration ?

Thanks...

Are you talking about mass production? Or are you talking about custom made orders? I myself would love a US army test model with 5 inch barrel. What I could pay all depends on what I could talk my wife into!

Mass production will be a starch.
I am thinking about getting all the parts done for about 20 of them. And then finish them for custom orders.

For now i am just want to see, what people crave the most ...

Well, gee, since you're askin', Eugene...I'd like one of each. and a 4" P.08 as well. If I had to pick one, it'd be the Baby, for a carry piece (depending on its dependability). If their reliability of function is not improved over original, then a Navy.

OK, so much for champagne tastes combined with kool aid wallet.

This will be a huge project if it gets off the ground--not necessarily huge profit for all involved, unless you count the satisfaction from achieving this most prodigious goal. If it takes more than you and a couple of great machinists, give or take some outsourcing, then I'd be up for periodic/extended trips to your place to work with you if you can use the services of a very experienced fabricator who can MIG and TIG and, moreover, has a feel for mechanical systems the Luger incorporates. My pals include a couple of engineers, several certified welders, and even another fabricator who gunsmiths on the side.
The company I worked for closed its doors a year ago, and I've been unemployed ever since, so my schedule is flexible to say the least. And my potential retirement would roughly coincide with your proposed production schedule. Give a holler if you need an extra hand!

Interesting proposition ....

can you email me at Eugene@LugerMan.com

Let's see if there is a mutual benefit in it for us.

Eugene,

This is what you will be trying to replicate with respect to the 1907 US Test Luger.

It is a Model 1906, .45 cal, no serial number, that is in the Arms Collection at the Norton Museum. Photographed it on Tuesday.

John

You can not do that....

I can not look away from the screen ....

This picture is unfair to all the luger collectors out there...

But yes that is what i am trying to replicate.

I was under the impression that US gun tests where done in 1905 , so i was thinking that a 45 ACP luger is also called 1905 model.

I guess i got my facts confused.

Thanks for that picture.

Eugene, There are currently new exact repros of the M1907 Army Test .45 offered by Krausewerks in Ca. and probably a few John Martz .45s Babys on the market. How will yours differ from these? TH

Good question
 

Hi,
It is a good question...

I did talk to Mike at Krausewerks in CA... His words were...
His plan was to make about 50 of the 1907 45 ACPs he is about to be done with last batch of them and he is not planing on any more.

Martz is not producing any more guns and his are not exact replicas of 1907 ACP model. And are very famous and expencive.

My version, if it ever comes to that will be offered in all 5 variations.
Baby, Standard, Navy, Artillery and Carbine.

And most importantly will be available in the future, for future orders, hopefully for years to come.

At a smaller price tag, at around 12K to start depending on variation.

In every other respect it will be the same.

If it ever raises to be a real project, with some interest from the public, i may be able to slowly grow it in to semi production levels, with possibility to lower a price tag below 5K.

But that dream got to be at least 10 years away.

My dream and goal in life to bring Luger design back to life...
Sort of invent the time machine and allow the 1907 Luger 45 ACP version to grow in what a 1911 Colt 45 ACP is today .

If George Luger followed up with the order of the test guns in 1907 , who knows maybe today we'd have a ton of cheap Luger 45ACP available , made by everyone under the sun, and Colt 1911 will cost a million $ and only 3 of them 'd exist.

I got nothing agents 1911 Colt, but i think history took an unfair turn for a 1907 Luger , that has a ton of potential.

They did finish the army tests neck in neck even then.

I have seen the test results.

After all, been somewhat of a realist, i think my dream my never come to life... but one is allowed to dream ? Right ?

First, I am not a fan of 45acp. But I guess #2 will be the winner (if there is a market). C&R players usually do not like "innovation". #2 is the only one has historical background. The tune should be "reproduce a historical piece", instead of "I invented a new variation".

===
Of course, if you can compete with Stoeger/Mitchell, or Interarms on price, that will be a very different story. Probably unlikely.... $0.02

Eugene,

Well, you asked.

I don't care about a .45 test clone, or its marketing mystique. I can buy one of those already, if I cared to spend that kind of money, which I don't--$15,000 woud make a nice dent in my want list of real, collectible Lugers.

What I want is a real .45 Luger--and that means the real 55 degree grip angle--which functions reliably, and I can actually take out and shoot. And anything more than $4,000-$5,000 for any kind of shooting gun--let alone a Luger--is right out of the question.

--Dwight

Dwight..well said Sir!

alvin,

i do not think it has been established, historically, that the # 2 pistol (old abermann gun) or the other one in the norton gallery were even at the trials.

I can get that ...

And i can respect that as well...

How about a 45 GAP conversion then.
You keep your 55 degree grip,

You keep ( almost) original Luger look
and the price tag is: $3000

Does it make it more marketable ?

Why making a Luger,,,, even Mauser does not do that for profit anymore. Make Astra 900 series, no one has done that, easier to control the cost.

Yeee. but no one cares for A900, not then, not now ;0)

Everyone drools over lugers , back then and now ;0)

Just look at my safe , and Luger to Mauser ratio is 3 to 1

Icons are icons, and we can not do anything about that we can just follow, or go a different direction ;0)

I think it was on another related thread, but someone mentioned a Borchardt reproduction.
I remember awhile back a guy was building one using the reciever of a Luger and having it work with Tokarev mags. The frame and everything else was being made from scratch. The Borchardt may not be 100% originaly correct, but by utilizing parts that are already made, cost could possibly be kept down.

Dave

The one being made by a fellow site member is ALL from scratch and is almost an exact replica of an original Borchardt.

You are correct there was only one gun there. And if you look at Ordnance Corps records and notes on the 1907 trial, you will read that there was only ONE gun ever submitted.

It was fired during several sequences by George Luger personally. Then subjected to sand tests and again fired. Then subjected to corrosive environment tests and fired. All by Luger himself. There is literally a shot by shot description of what happened to each round; both those provided by DWM and those made by Frankfort Arsenal.

At the conclusion of the test , a determination was made that the Luger would NOT be invited to proceed further and that only Colt and Savage would be invited. One of the stated reasons for not proceeding with DWM was that the powder used in their cartridge was not available in the USA.

Savage subsequently withdrew and that reopened the door for DWM who was offered a contract for 200, .45 caliber guns which after consideration they declined thus handing the contract to Colt who, after several more tests and design changes, was awarded the contract for the Model 1911 Colt in late 1911.

The three guns that we know about have differing specifications, the most major of which is the grip angle but there are other differences. But the record shows there was only ONE actual TEST gun submitted.

Now at this point I would normally say, JMVHO, but this time I can say that this is historical fact.

John

Would a .40 S&W Luger be more or less feasible than a .45?