odd ball KU
 

picked up a 1937 s/42 Ku marked luger off a vet for $500, the gun has the letters KU stamped on the receiver, waffen stamps 63 and same on barrel and what appears to me the mauser eagle stamped on the receiver and barrel( not matching serial number?) barrel has zeroed out serial number with another serial number under it, that does not match the frame. what puzzles me is suposedly all Ku lugers were thrown together for the luftwaffe out of substandard parts and should have a 1941 chamber date. here are a few pics of the gun

http://https://www.facebook.com/medi...type=3&theater

http://https://www.facebook.com/medi...type=3&theater

http://https://www.facebook.com/medi...type=3&theater

It is best to post pictures here on the forum.

Welcome to our place

Ku'S are interesting, and Gibson said in krieghoff Lugers that "some" Luger were mismatched, and or that it is not uncommon to find them this way, I have sold two or three of them and one was mismatched and the others were matched, if I remember right.

I don't remember it saying only 1941, but a 1937 and the barrel being replaced sounds odd to me.

Ed

pics
 

tinker, i keep trying to post pics, but they are not working right for me

Hi Harry,

There are several members studying the Ku marked Lugers.

A range of chamber dates has been observed on these pistols, including your receiver's year. While 1941 was the last year observed, it's not the first.

It's unlikely that these were made from sub-standard parts in any way.

Its very possible that these pistols were made at a depot level armory out of a range of available parts, particularly as the German armed forces switched to the P.38 pistol and Luger parts stocks could have been considered or declared surplus. So far, no factual documentation confirming this has been found.

I'd very much like to see your pistol. PM me if you need to Email them to me to get them posted.

Marc

mark mark
 

Mark, send me a e mail at phillyriverrat57@aol.com and i will send you some pics

if you do research in the current gun blue book it states that Ku lugers should be marked 1941 on the chamber. i do tend to find these books to be wroung alot as i have a 1862 colt pocket navy in 95% condition and every discription for this gun states they had silver plated backstraps..military models didn't..once again experts being wrong.. that why i like lugers so much, they are unusual and tend to turn up with unusual markings on them from time to time.
i won 3 other lugers, a 1917 DWM with natzi barrel( not matching serial number with waffen stamp and natzi eagle with swatstika putting it into the 1934 to 39 rebuild period
a 1920 dwm commercial with no germany stamp on it
a all matching 1937 mauser S/42, right down to the FXO mag in it

Harry,
A 1937 S/42 would not have come with a FXO magazine.

William

will every book i have on the 1937 s/42 mauser states they should have a FXO mag with a waffen inspectors stamp of 37 and many have unnumbered bases, with pin in the round mag area, should also be marked P08 on it, this includes Jan stills book on lugers

Hi Harry, William is correct. 1937 S/42 P08's came with Type 2 Army mags, as in the first two photos. The fxo Type 3's came later, about 1940. Regards, Norm

Is the 1917 a police?

It would make sense in receiving a replacement barrel during that time period - I am always leery of 'rebuilds' but you are correct in that many were rebuilt.

Ed

Pictures of the Ku
 

Pictures of the Ku Luger from original poster. I let him know we can post higher resolution if they become available.

Marc

Tinker the 1917 is not a police luger, there are no other markings on it other than the normal WW1 marks on the left side of the reciever with prussian eagle. only natzi markings are on the barrel...anyway, leats stay on the KU luger for now.

Marc, THanks for photos. IMHO, a not so well done forgery of a KC. TH

Tom, what is a KC?

luger doc, you seem to speak allfull quick that something is a forgery? i have had 5 gun shops in philadelphia look at it and we even conpared the markings on another Ku marked luger, they are the same, so what you are basicly telling me all KU lugers are forgerys

You are more than welcome to participate in this Luger collectors forum.

All Luger enthusiasts are welcome on this forum... you don't even have to own a Luger to a member here.

The answer to your specific question is No.

What LugerDoc is trying to tell you is that even with the poor quality focus photographs you have provided, it is obvious that the serial number on the side of the upper receiver has been re-stamped, changing the number.

The machine marks on the side of the receiver where the original number was mostly removed before the re-stamping are obvious even in the poor quality focus of the photo.

The number of gunshops in the Philadelphia area that you have been to, has no bearing on what level of expertise they have in Luger identification. Having "similar" markings isn't the same as having identical markings.

This forum has been in existence for almost 15 years and the internationally recognized Luger historians and advanced collectors who are members of this forum (which include Jan C. Still just to name one you are familiar with) are more that willing to assist you, but if you are not willing to be open to their opinions and expertise, then you are wasting your time asking questions.

when it comes to lugers, i have heard it all, most dealers don't know what they are talking about, and most people are ready to down something really fast. the markings were compared to 2 other lugers in a very well known gun shop, the owners father has been in buisness since the 1930's and heis son now runs the shop, he brought in 2 KU guns from his peosonal collections, the marks were the same, as far as the serial number, it is what it is, but i do not give a opinion when i do not know, and i get defensive when people jump right away and state something is fakle. i got this gun off a ver who is 92 years old, have been a family friend for morw than 60 years, and he is currently looking for the US goverment bring back papers for it...i guess the goverment was lieing in the 1940's too

The latitude given to the Brotherhood here is to be emulated or perhaps replicated on any board. We seek, we learn, we share. Thanks for being here for me, for all.

Perhaps you should get together with myky and compare Krieghoff's...His is an original, too...

being that i came in here here to inquire about something i can find little info about, and after being condemed so fast,on a pistol i bought, and knowing little about it and something the german kept no records on and probably built on a armoury level, i seriously doubt i will really be comming back in there with the attitude i got. these are not a standard luger, and instead of helping someone, it seems like people here are more interested in pissing people off than trying to help or figure out a mystery

People here are just curious about the KU Krieghoff's... :cheers:

Could you post the name & address of the shops with the markings that are the same as yours???

I did business with a shop just shy of City Center on Broad St...Bought a Browning there...And the Philly Police Dept walked my permit through (I was active duty/Philly Naval Base)...

Philly, I see that John S. also noticed that the slide show signs of non-original renumbering. I'm basing my OPINION on having owned a few righteous KUs over the years, the photos in Gibson's "The Kreighoff Parabellum and that he shows no receivers dated before 1940. TH

Harry -

I dug out my Philly Pistol permit (purchase only; no carry)...and the receipt for my browning 380 auto...Pearsons...Was this the place???

Took about two hours for the whole transaction...That includes the walk-through for the permit...

Imagine...A Philadelphia Police Lieutenant took time out of his busy day to fingerprint, photograph, and background check a Marine so he could purchase a pistol... :rolleyes:

Ya gotta love Police like that!!! :thumbup:

Lookin' good, Rich!
I too am looking forward to a documentation from all these top flight, expert gun shops in Philly who have rendered scholarly opinions on this KU Luger.

Philly et al, I'm of the "school" that the original ku marked lugers were built by a Luft repair depot using spare parts from Mauser, after they ceased PO8 production in 1942. So most parts would be of that era, with a few new Kreighoff parts (have observed a few) as necessary. I suspose that it's possible, that these depots also reworked some earlier PO8s, renumbering them in the "ku" range, but don't know why that would be necessary. TH

Not sure why you are 'irritated', you asked opinions and folks gave them to you.

You paid a less than shooter price (notice what it says where I live..../ I am just north of Philly)

98% of the gun shops have very little experience with lugers, let alone a KU

I assume you go to the Allentown collectors show? I have a table there most shows, and know a bit about lugers. Geo has a table and knows a lot more than me, and there are two or three others, --Art, Scottie, Tom who know more than me...

Sooooo, I will give you $600 for it anytime this week ;) because as a shooter or a conversation piece, it was a steal at $500

The 'attitude' is skepticism, because, in the past, mechanics have come here with pics of the boosted Luger they are trying to peddle for 4 or 5 times what it would bring if unaltered. They post pics and give a story (always a story!) and solicit opinions. :p

Man! I haven't looked at that pic in...some time... :D

Kinda looks like that home-grown terrorist from The Unit; the guy who tried to nuke Washington with a bomb hidden in his driveshaft... :rolleyes:

Why did you blank out the year?

License to purchase is not required in Pennsylvania now....

I wasn't sure if they were still in business or not...It was quite some time ago... :rolleyes:

I'm not up on all the local laws, but does that apply to the City Of Philadelphia too??? You'll note, they are not state permits...but City Of...

Ed, do you get into Philly often??? Is Pearson's still in business???

Sometimes I wonder if a mechanic doesn't post his work here just to see how well he did... :rolleyes:

(I'm not saying this is a boosted KU...Just wondering out loud)... :thumbup:

In unrelated news, there is a 'Mauser KU' Luger posted for sale on GB right now...

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=301066466

I looked at the pics but I can't find the 'KU'... :confused:

And to quote: "This luger has a DWM Toggle and has been authenticated correct by 2 known luger experts, names will be given upon request".

A Mauser KU with a DWM toggle??? Well, a parts KU, I suppose that's OK...

I wonder if those 2 known Luger experts know they're authenticating a $1,650.00 Mauser KU? :rolleyes:

Rich, The "Ku" is visible in front of the serial number on the fifth photo from the top. Also a code "42" under the last digits of the s/n on the trigger plate.

Joop has inspected many "Ku" Lugers, I wonder if many "DWM" toggles have been observed... I also wonder what portion have "Ku" leading versus trailing the receiver s/n.

Marc

Thanks Marc, I see it now...A light strike, but at least this one has an umlaut... :D

The "u" is lower case, too...Are there authenticated KU's with the "u" lower case??? (Authenticated by someone other than the 2 experts he refers to)... :rolleyes:

I believe that they all have "Kü" where there is an umlaut over the lower case "u".

Interestingly, the abbreviation "Kü" in German can refer to "Coast" or "Kitchen". Perhaps the Luftwaffe had to "cook" up some Lugers for their coast watchers in the armory "kitchen", since so many of their planes and crews had been eliminated as the war progressed...

Marc

Well, looks like phillyriverrat57 has left the building... :(

I believe I'll set up a "Saved Search" on GB for a Krieghoff with the serial 4640...With or without the Ku... :D