Unit mark? Boy.21 J.R.M.G.
 

A friend just acquired an interesting Luger with the cited marking. It appears to be East German with black grips with vertical grooves, a different but functional side plate, unmatched numbers and over stamps on the frame and elsewhere. It appears to be a commercial DWM said to be 1920s with import marks on the barrel. It was priced at $1000 which I thought a little high. Condition will make it a fair shooter. Sorry, no pictures.

Can anyone translate the unit markings for us please?

Thanks.

Boy? really? or a script "B"?

21 J.R.M.G. would likely be Infantry Regiment 21 Machine Gun(company)

$1000 is a little high for only a "fair" shooter. Black grips with vertical grooves are Russian.

Pictures?

Thanks Don,

That would be Bay, with a Roman B mostly filled out. A closer look makes that an a in Bay, not Boy. Sorry.

The note says it included holster and extra mag for the $1000. Bore is strong with light pitting.

Ed

Maybe "Bayerische" = Bavarian

Holster and extra mag may help, depends on if they are reproductions or original.

Is there a date over the chamber? If so, it should be 1916 or earlier.
The unit mark is indeed a Bavarian mark for the Bavarian 21st Infantry Rgt, Machine Gun Company

No date over the chamber on what looks like a commercial top with no military poofs. An N on the left side is almost touched by 2144 which is also on the barrel. The frame has an etched out two digit number and l (el) with 2144 added underneath. Toggle seems commercial with etched 44 on top. Side plate with etched 44 is not typical German but works. I would guess the top and bottom did not start out together.

Thanks for the information. This is all very interesting and educational for those who love Lugers and their history.

Is there a stock lug?

You would guess correctly; the luger assembled by the Russians or East Germans after WWII.

Hello George. I think there is a lug, but the pistol is in Arlington and I am in Mt. Jackson for opening day. I can check it on Wednesday. Thanks for your interest. I am enjoying the 20's .30 you passed on to me a few months ago.

Thanks again.

Ed S.

Ed, I live in Mt Jackson.

Yes George, I was in your home to purchase a pistol some months ago.

Anyway, the Luger here does have a stock lug. Is that significant?

Thanks for you interest.

Ed

Stock lug became standard for all P 08 pistols in mid 1913; so if it has a lug the frame is from 1913 or later.

Thank you Gentlemen for the information. My friend Rich is delighted with what we have learned here. Being a naturally curious person, he is looking into the history of this Bavarian infantry unit.

Ed

Vertically grooved plastic or Bakelite grips would indicate Russian, brown or black crosshatched plastic/Bakelite grips with a 'bullseye' in the upper quadrant would indicate VoPo/East German grips.

If the vertically grooved plastic or Bakelite grips are genuine (lots of fakes out there) they are worth some money. IIRC, I bought my set for $200. :eek:

Interesting about the grips. These are vertical without the bulls eye so they may be Russian. What should we look for to ensure they are legitimate?

I can get pictures after the weekend.

Thank you Sheepherder.

I took a look and the grips appear to be Bakelite made with some care and precision and with two 1/4 inch dimples inside both grips. Fit is good with no chips or dings.

The hot pin test will tell. Heat a pin red hot. Briefly press the tip into an appropriate spot on the back side's surface. Bakelite might give a whiff of hot electrical stuff, but the pin will melt the plastic and sink in if you push. That's the diff.

With other plastic copies of German or VoPo Bakelite grips, the mold makers forgo the tapped holes on the back, or at least the threads, particularly on the cheapest ones. One should be able to turn a grip screw into these holes. Without seeing pics, the "dimples" remind me of this. If the Russian Bakelite grips have threaded holes ordinarily, this might also be a clue. I have, however, never had any in-hand, whether real or repro, and I cannot say.

Thanks Ithacaartist, they pass the test for Bakelite. There are no screw holes in the back. I'll have pictures soon when granddaughter returns with the camera.

Dimples are round 5/16 in. dia. and about 1/16 deep with round bottom and centered 7/8 back from front. Top dimple is centered 1 1/4 from top and bottom dimple is 1 5/8 down.

Magazine is nice with 122 over eagle and smaller 57 at bottom left side and eagle and 57 toward top. Number is 4267 h +. Thanks again. I find all this very interesting.