US test Lugers (45 Egale?)
 

I heard about the US testing some 45 caliber Lugers back just before WWI. I had a co worker claim to have one. Can some one point me in a direction on learning more about them? Is there a serial # range.

I normally wouldn't be concerned but this same individual claimed the M1 Garand started out with a flip up rear sight like the 03 and a hooded front sight. I know better then that so I had to call him on it.

Now I would like to know more about the 45s we tested. How many...where... when and what might have happened to them? Are there reproductions and the best way to recognize them.

thank you

Rob

Hello Rob, yes, this is covered in detail in the early / commerical portion of the site.

Here is a listing of previous discussions about some .45 cal. Lugers :

http://forum.lugerforum.com/search.p...der=descending

Also...over on Jan Still's Gun Boards, there is quite an informative posting about the 45. guns. It is free to register and participate.

http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2260

Sidney Aberman at one of the early NAPCA conventions ( circa, early/mid 70's in St. Louis ). Brought a assortment of extremely rare .45 ACP autos, to display. One of the two known .45 Lugers was among them.

It was a real hoot to see the guys crowding around, ( me included ). As Sid let us individually fondle it, along with his other goodies. Even 30+ years ago he probably had at least a quarter of a million bucks worth of very rare .45 ACP's, in his display.

What got me was that he was so nonchalant about the various guns. He just had them crammed in ordinary glass top display cases.

On the other hand, some of these self-anointed Luger gurus I would run into at shows, acted as if they had the crown jewels of England on display. Whereas in all reality, 2/3 of their guns were probably the handiwork of Pastor Munkel, courtesy of Waffenfabrik Michigan.

burton:

I had a similar pleasure at a Lakeland Civic Center Gunshow in Florida around 1986.

I rounded a corner and there sat, in open view, the .45 beauty, in a nice case, but not even under glass.

The gentleman, I didn't get his name, let me handel the pistol, which for me was a bit unbelievable. In fact, he seemed to enjoy watching the knowing's reaction to it. The GL was indeed on the rear of the toggle.

The pistol seemed to fit nicely in the hand, as does the 9mm model, but was a bit heavier, about as heavy as one of my standard Nambu T-14s

Sieger

Rob,
There are only two none to exist. One in the Aberman Collection mentioned above, and one in the Norton Gallery, a museum in Shreveport, LA .
It's probably safe to say you can call your co-worker on this one too.
Mike C.

Rob,

It is possible your co-worker may have a copy of the .45 Luger pistol made by Moke Krause out of San Mateo, CA for the past 10-years or so.

He runs an aero-space level machine shop with a manufacturer's license to make hand guns from scratch. He runs a retail gun shop as well.

His .45 Luger pistols were a direct copy off the Abermann gun.

Krause' guns sold/sell new in the over $ 18K price range...made on special order.

There is one for sale on Gun Broker...you can see the photos at this link :

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=81033840

Over the years I have tracked down two reported .45 Lugers. One turned out to be a 1911 .45 and the other was a broomhandle Mauser. It is hard to believe, but to some non-gun folks any semi-auto pistol is a "Luger".

there have also been scores of 45's made from 9mm or 7.65mm lugers. John Martz has been making them for years, also other people have tried. Also, there are single shot 45's such as the Wyatt conversion.


Ed

The Wyatt conversion is not a single shot, it is semi-auto repeater. The big difference in a Wyatt conversion, other than the caliber, is the fact that it has a "fixed" magazine. The entire magazine well in the Luger grip is used for the magazine. The base of the grip is attached to the grip frame with the magazine spring and follower riding inside the grip frame itself. There is a slot in the right grip that permits a short rod to be inserted into the follower so that it may be pulled down for loading, much like using a Luger "tool" to load a regular magazine. The Wyatt Luger is loaded with the toggle open and locked by the hold-open device. Rounds are inserted through the open receiver into the grip/magazine, just like other fixed magazine weapons are loaded with a stripper clip. When the toggle is released the Wyatt Luger functions just like its smaller caliber "parent".

Sid Aberman passed away in the late 70's. To the best of my knowledge his family disposed of his automatic pistol collection, shortly afterwards. I don't recall hearing any information, about about who acquired the .45 Luger. Obviously if Krause's replicas are a direct copy of Aberman's .45 ACP Luger, he must have had access to it in the years since Aberman's death.

Garry James wrote an article in the June 1994 issue of Guns & Ammo about shooting the "Million Dollar Luger", which was the former Aberman .45. At the time of that article the Luger was owned by Michael Zomber who had obtained it in late 1993. I am sure Zomber doesn't own it now! Some of the more informed members on this forum can probably fill in the details post Zomber.