Import marks... What does that do to the value?
 

I'm looking at a 1942 byf Luger in amazing condition. The grips are un-numbered and the mag doesn't match. But it has a small laser engraved import stamp under the trigger guard. Kind of a bummer. What do you think the percentage off the price would be to you guys?

As soon as any mark is added to a Luger especially import marks it lost all collector value and becomes what ever the market will bear. As a shooter the value could be $800-$1200 depending on how the gun checks out over all.

Some value it down to a shooter, others knock a few hundred off the price and accept the mark as part of the history of the gun as is. Sort of like a gun with 75% blue left. Just my opinion.

So, beachbaker, my A.F.Stoeger is a shooter, I did not know that. And, Sturgess' entire collection is now of shooters. I didn't realize that either.

Jack

Lets just say that I'm not in agreement with the above. Any Luger imported after the 1968 GCA went into effect is importer marked and commercial Lugers prior to that are marked "GERMANY" or "MADE IN GERMANY". That makes my pre-WW1 American Eagle just a "shooter"?

Many Lugers imported after 1968 are uncommon - rare, if you will - and still valued as a collectible even when import marked.

How the import markings are inscribed, their size and location can effect value but each must be judged alone. But to blanket relegate them to "shooter" is wrong.

Your opinion and you are for sure entitled to it, but-
not necessarily bought into by all. JMHO.

Some guns were marked at request of the importer at the factory. These certainly aren't 'shooters' :)

This import mark baloney is the same thing we have to contend with in M1 carbine collecting. It knocks down the value. I say it should not do anything to the value as the import mark is just another part of the guns history.

I would agree, however - to many collectors, it is the kiss of death - I should say 'older collectors' as that is what was kicked around for years and years.
I think with the tens of thousands of SKS, Mosins, Tokarevs, lugers and P38's that were imported, many newer collectors in the last 20 yrs have changed how people look at it. (and as said above, depending on the size / location of the import marking)
Many of the newer collectors are shooters, so this makes sense they are less bothered.

I have a 1925 Simson, and it has a small import marking - I do think its part of its history

Ed

JMHO - does little or nothing to value , buts adds to history -

So, the consensus answer from the forum is "it depends"...

It depends on the expected configuration of the pistol.

It depends on where you are located.

It depends on condition.

It depends on rarity.

It depends on how visible the mark is.

A 1942 dated Mauser byf Luger can normally be found in the USA without an import mark, as a result of either being a bring-back or being imported prior to the marking laws effect. So... you'd deduct a little or a lot depending on the visibility of the marking.

A DWM Alphabet commercial Luger or a VoPo Luger would more normally be found in the USA with an import marking of the expected type, so you'd deduct between zero and a little depending on the normal configuration and visibility.

On a 1942 byf Mauser pistol, I'd tend to deduct more value for a highly visible import marking.

The 'GERMANY' stamps on American Eagles and Alphabet Commercials or export stamps, which left the factory with it. I haven't seen many with import stamps... totally different when it comes to value.

The Germany markings were usually applied by the importer, but that is a small detail. In my opinion they do not hurt the value at all.

There is a nice document from the 1920s where Stoeger suggests to apply the Germany marking themselves, as the manufacturers quote for applying them was too expensive.

Here is Mauser's letter from the 1920s about the factory applying the Germany marking at an additional cost of 2 RMarks per pistol.

Interesting letter, Gerben. There is little doubt in my mind however, that if US collectors were offered a choice between two identical guns, one stamped "GERMANY" and the other unstamped, that they would choose the latter.
Regards, Norm

Unfortunately, "import marks" help to decrease the value of any collector's weapon, especially if they have been printed on clearly visible parts and not for example under the stocks, which often happens especially here in Europe.

Simpsons, in Galesburg, Ill., have their own stamp applied when they buy guns overseas.

That's true Major Tom, but not the whole story. Speaking of Lugers, Simpson applies his Import Marking lightly on the bottom of the grip at the magazine well opening where it is unobtrusive, and lightly enough that it can easily be removed if the owner himself wants it removed by someone other than the importer.

Jack

Many of the more recent Simpson's imports are marked on the frame surface in front of the trigger guard, below the takedown lever pivot. I thought the mag well marking was very discreet, and didn't bother me at all.

gunbugs,

I didn't know of that change. I was at his store last Thursday and we talked about the markings, but he didn't indicate his placement of them had changed. I'll call him next week and check on that and get back here with what's currently being done.

I mention Simpson often but I'm not name dropping. I've known him a long time, but my relationship is purely as a customer. I've bought a number of guns from him and he's sold a number for me. I've done one trade with him, something I was wanting to sell but he wanted for himself. What I traded had more value than what I got from him and the cash balance was given to me as store credit. Which was understood and agreeable to me. He is a business man, no doubt about it, straight up and honest.

Jack

An example here:https://simpsonltd.com/w-f-bern-1929...d-grip-z45193/