"Not a real Walther"
 

I thought some of you may get a chuckle out of this... I know I'm happy. I haven't been in a position to be spending money on guns lately, but couldn't walk away from this one.

Stopped at a "buy and sell" 2nd hand place with a friend yesterday. They had a few junk guns at premium prices. I looked in the pistol case, and down on the bottom shelf I saw this. It appears nearly unfired, probably a house gun. Original pebble grain vinyl box and all paper work in tact.

The price was $329.00. I asked why so cheap? The guy said,

"It's not a real Walther PPK. Just some kind of knock-off. We have an appraiser that told us that a real Walther should have an antler on it."

I've been looking for one at a decent price for a carry gun. Think I found it...

I'm also thinking of sending their appraiser a love letter.

Ron

Ron
I like your junk sale!!!! I always think about these deals but never happens. Way to go!! Bill

Hi Bill,

I almost told them that it was, a Walther. Then decided, who am I to argue with a certified gun appaiser, and kept my mouth shut.

I never go into these places, and almost waited in the rig while my friend went in. Glad that I decided to now.

Thanks...

Ron

Nice carry gun!

Good find Ron :cheers:

Ed

Sweet! I have a PPK/S that spends a bit of time in my hip pocket. Paid about the same for it. Would have preferred a PPK but glad to have the one I have. (Wanna swap? :))

Hehe, what a great find, luck was on your side Ron :D I'm with Bill however, i never find these type of sales :p

Wow.

Should give appraiser a big medal. It's a myth how they work, they must know detail of many types of guns and don't mix them up, that's hard.

Ron,
Nice buy!, did you see if he had any more of those "knock Offs" in the back room ?

Jim

Ron,

I would need to think about it...no.

I've had two PPKS' in the past, but always wanted a PPK. When I ran across the rare one now and then, the dealer's always wanted a premium for them. There was one on GB a few months ago, but there again, the guy wanted way too much for it. The new S&W version isn't reliable from what I have heard. And has the long tang which defeats the compactness.

Alvin,

I have worked in , and hung around in gun shops long enough to know that most "experts" , ain't.

Went,

I have always dreamt about deals like this myself. This is a first.

Jim,

Most of the guns they had were cheap stuff that most of us wouldn't look at twice. When I first glanced at the "unWalther", I thought that it was an old Jennings or Raven until I saw the manual behind it.

Thanks guys...

Ron

The "antler" stamp is interesting. I heard it's Ulm Proof House Mark (?)

I had an Interarms P1 made in West Germany, which I play with some shooting fun. Yeserday, I just noticed there is an antler on the left side of the trigger guard.

Could it be possible that postwar PPK made in West Germany does have that antler stamp, but PPK made in USA does not? So from that sense, the appraiser made his conclusion?

P.S. Very early C96 (such as CH, LRH, early Small Ring) also have a similar stamp on the right side of the chamber, different style. I heard that's "Oberndorf Proof House Mark", and it always shows "halo". I heard the same proof house is now located in Ulm.

"Could it be possible that postwar PPK made in West Germany does have that antler stamp, but PPK made in USA does not? So from that sense, the appraiser made his conclusion?"

Alvin,

That's exactly what happened. The Ulm antler proof is only found on imported guns produced there. This PPK is American made under license from Walther.

Deals come up, I've been going to gun shows the last year or show (too many the wife says) and come across the normal too expensive lugers and p38's. last weekend i came across a pre-war PPK with correct brown grips and extensition magazine for $450 out the door. The grips alone were worth half the money, I bought it and traded / sold it to a friend of mine the next day.


Ed

Guys,

The Antler is indeed the marking of the Ulm proof house. Both Walther and Mauser (Parabellum / HSC) used the services of the Ulm proof house, as it's close to both companies.

Because proofing at a proof house comes with a price tag, and there is no need for official proofs on a USA market gun, the companies decided to have only those guns proofed that were destined for non-USA delivery.

Mauser introduced an in-house proof ('FBM') as an alternative for USA guns. I don't know what Walther did.

One of the former Mauser engineers went to work for Carl Walther afterwards, I'll try to ask him what he knows about the USA export guns.

Interesting side note: Interarms was responsible for setting up the USA production of Walther pistols. One of the daughters of Sam Cummings, the late Interarms chairman, used a USA Walther to shoot her husband. That wasn't good brand marketing.

I have deeper questions on proof and antler stamp....need help from domain experts:

(1) As shown in the above West Germany P1, it has both Eagle over N commercial proof, and Ulm antler mark. May I assume the gun was proofed twice? E/N stamped in factory, and antler stamped in the outside proof house, probably later.

Also, E/N and antler appear on H&K P7.

(2) Even more interesting is early Mauser C96. It always has C/C/U on left side of the chamber. I would assume that's equivalent of E/N, in Mauser style. On early Mauser, the gun also has an antler on the right side of the chamber. I heard that's "Oberndorf Proof House Mark". The C/C/U does not show halo, supposed to be applied in the factory before the gun was blued. The antler stamp has halo (see a sample gun picture attached), obviously applied after the gun being blued. Looks like it was proofed twice.... once in "white" steel while in factory, and once in finished form in the proof house.

Make any sense?

Nice going there.
Just goes to prove, I'd rather be lucky than good LOL

Alvin,

The Eagle/N and the Antler (together with the year code) are struck by the proof house at the same time.

Eagle/N denotes the sort of proof (Nitro Proof), the Antler (or other marking) identifies the proof house that did the job and the year code is simply to show in what year it was proofed.

Nice buy Ron... This one made my day :-)