Krieghoff Luger
 

I've inherited my Dad's Luger. It is stamped Heinrich Krieghoff Waffenfabrik Suhl on the side and 819 up near the barrel and P819 under the barrel. There is also a very small symbol that resembles a crown or a star with either a number 11 or N underneath it. On the top is an Anchor symbol with a capitol H and K on each side of the anchor and Krieghoff Suhl stamped underneath. I have an extra magazine and holster. My Dad was stationed at an airbase in Germany and a German General flew his plane in to surrender to the Americans on the second to last day of the war. He handed his Luger to my Dad and my Dad smuggled it home. Everything is in beautiful condition. How much might this gun be worth?

Krieghoff Luger
 

Here are additional photos

Does either magazine match?


Krieghoff's are worth a lot, although condition is everything, you'll want to have it verified by an krieghoff expert who will be able to tell if all matching.

My feeling is that it is worth (if all matching) at $7,000-$10,000


Most lugers are not even close to this amount, it is simply because it is a P code (commeriical model) and in excellent shape.



Ed

:eek:

Congradulations
 

You have a documentable early civilian Kreighoff, worth more than you think!

Incredible gun! That is like winning the lottery!:jumper:

Quick question for the forum members.
I am curious about the holster. It looks like a post war commercial holster. Would that same style have been available during the war?
Thanks
Bob

Beautiful Luger!
Is it missing the stock lug or is it just the angle at which the photo was taken?
Is that a P-38 holster??

I have no idea what the stock lug is.

Stock lug is as pointed. Have a picture of that area?

I wondered if there were stock lugs on almost all the luger, where are all the stocks. Were they the same as those on the navy or artillery?

Eric,
The experts could better explain, but I believe all frames manufactured by DWM,Erfurt after sometime in 1913 (and subsequently Simson, Mauser, etc) incorporated the stock lugs.

they did, but they were not used for stocks most of the time

It would be a crime if this particular pistol had succumbed to the lug grinding hysteria of some years ago.....

Could You please post a picture of the back side. I just want to confirm which of 2 German manfacturers it is!

This is a Dated Kreighoff Holster
 

displayed on page 119, H. EGER & LINDE SCHMALDEN 1937 identical to mine.

It looks like the stock lug has been filed off. I'm sure my Dad would not have done it, so it must have been done by the German officer who surrendered it to my Dad. One magazine has no number or markings on it and the other has 9631. Under the number is a script "b" and a + sign.

I don't see any markings at all on the back side of the gun. What would tell you who manufactured the weapon?

If the stock lug was removed, this would decrease the value of your gun dramaticly :eek:

Jay,
You have a really nice Krieghoff. The stock lug removal is not what we would like to see but it happens. Could you please post some photos of the area of the grip where the stock lug would be, both from the back and the bottom of the grip?
Thank you,
Ron

Solved and rarer. This was a rework as shown on 268-9.'These serial numbers on these reworked weapon will be those of the original manufacturer. Kreighoff did not renumber the weapons in their own range. Boy would I like to own this one.

Is there any commercial Luger without stock lug imported into the U.S. after 1934? If there is, I won't be surprised. But I don't know.....

====

Just saw cirelaw's picture!

Did the book say "rework"? or no stock lug out of factory? or removed by the importer?

Eric
I'm not seeing what your copied page has to do with the subject Luger. With the P serial number, side logo, and usual marked toggle it could not be any type of rework from another manufacturer (DWM) as your post shows. I'm no expert by any stretch but am I missing something?

Generally the side marked HK lugers have a DWM toggle assy and were of produced during the Weimar era. The horizontal C/N proofing is typical of reworks during this period. What would be strange, would to find one with a matching HK made toggle assy. I original to the rework, it too should have the C/N markings on the breech block and mid toggle link. TH

Rich, I'm copying directly from the blue 'THE KRIEGHOFF'book Send Me an mail, Ill send a picture. page 272. I sent this picture as these frame had no stock lig

Tom and Rich, you both know your lugers and especially this most exciting brand of Luger. I will however ask what I beleive another authority. The One whose opinion shall be sought after the holiday He himself owns more Kreighoffs than anyone I know and owns one simular to the one in question. RS Its apparent the the only Kreighoff missing a stock luger were just those borrowed frames that never had a stock lug to begin with. What idiot would ruin a beautiful frame and saw of a stock lug and for what reason. What would be the purpose of sawing off, bastardizing a real beauty when frames with no stock lugs were more readily available. I'll share what I find out. What amazes Me it that more isn't written for such a Beautiful Luger!

Here are some more photos. BTW, my wife wants me to sell. Since it was my Dad's I have an emotional attachment to the Iuger, but l'd sell if the offer is good enough.

Amazing, it sure looks like it was removed. This was a common practice although I don't know why. Lets see what vthe concencus it. Its still a very desirable Luger. I'll talk to Ralph on Monday. Ill be very interested to see what Rich and Tom have to say.

"I washed my hands before lunch" :)

When the lug was chopped off, there would be no easy way to turn it into a NFA weapon (Short Barrel Rifle) as defined by 1934 GCA. So Uncle Sam could not confiscate this legal gun. That could be one reason. Although law did not require chopping it off, I heard many guns were reworked this way in the past.

Were the Navies, carbines and artillerys the only exceptions. I just don't see the logic, if they were so outlawed why did the keep making a frame with a stud?

This is a controversial issue. One theory is that the stock lug was found to be a convenient place to hold the frame during assembly.
Regards

When German making guns for their armed forces, I don't think they put U.S. laws and regulations into their design or manufacturing consideration. Everything would be based on their needs and convenience.

If a gun was made for U.S. commercial market, then it's a different story. See dbuster posted Stoeger Luger in Commercial Luger column, that one does not have stock lug out of factory. Postwar Interarms Luger do not have stock lug either. Another example is Mitchell Luger, a domestic product, it has a bulge at butt but that's not stock lug.

Dropping Artillery, Navy etc from NFA list is also relatively new. When did ATF create C&R FFL? 1984?

I examined the frame of a P08 that was found in the Württenberg area last year.

The frame was a common P08 frame, part of a dig find, with a removed stock lug. This seems to indicate that removal of stock lugs was also done for whatever reason in Germany itself.

Personally, I think that some pistols were 'modified' this way under French, British or US allied control in the occupied areas of Germany in the last year of the war. I certainly don't believe that this cutting practice was only done in the USA.

Or someone should explain to me how a German P08 was taken to the US in the 1930s, had it's stock lug ground off, then sent back to Germany and ditched in the Württenberg area only to be retreived some 50 years later.

Of course, anything is possible and proof is lacking, but still.

I think it more likely that Jay's father, fearing, erroneously, that he risked confiscation if he tried to bring a lugged Luger back to the States, had the lug removed before returning home. Norm

Oh, I don't doubt that this particular modification was done in the USA.
I'm merely stating that there is some proof that stock lug removal was also done in Germany.

You both have to be right. its the only logical conclusion~~

The lug has been removed from the HK rework shown. I understand that some US STATES (incl NY) had lawa in the 1930s against "stockable" pistols (short rifles). I've owned (for parts) a couple of LPO8s with ground off stock lugs. TH

I suggested the Ted might do great with this Luger. The removal scar is the first thing so noticable mearly reblue it, or reblue the whole gun. Ted does outstanding work. He will need a correct holster.

Krieghoff Luger
 

There is also a very faint stamping of a crown with an N below it on the left front part of the toggle. It is very hard to see and I don't think it would show up in a photo.

Accordng to Kenyan, it is a German commercial proof,"Found on some commercial Lugers of the1906-1914 era. 'A few Lugers manufactured by Krieghoff have a simular, but smaller proof'

Please educate a novice luger guy. What makes the Krieghoffs any better than say a mauser or hk?