Winchester Super Field Powder
 

A friend recently gave me half pound of Winchester "WSF" shotgun powder and told me that it's slightly slower than Unique or Power Pistol, and that it should work in my 7.65. I've been working up a load with WSF and it seems to be working well, but I need to test it further. Has anyone used WSF? It's recommended for 9mm, but I'm using it in my 30 Luger.

I don't use WSF but I did find it in the 1991 Hornady reloading manual powder chart. It's #25. :)

I've used this chart to determine if Red Dot and Green Dot were 'equivalent' to other currently listed/available powders. :thumbup:

Hi,

Yes, WSF powder looks to me to be in the exact burning range for both the 7.65 and 9mm Luger. This powder seems to be currently available almost anywhere.

What bullets and brass are you using?

What loads have you developed?


Sieger

Hi Sieger,

I started out at 4.5 grains and worked up to 5 grains of WSF, which seems to be very accurate and I haven't found any signs of excess pressure, but I'll know more in a week or two. My cases are Starline, the bullets are Rainier 100 grain .311, with WSP primers;

Schutzenbob,

Your components look about right to me.

Is this powder clean burning in pistols?

Are these bullets of the plated type?

I'm looking for a bullet for my 7.63X25 Mauser and this looks like a possible option.

The original DWM round nose O.A.L. for the 7.65 was at 1.173 inches, with the original truncated cone DWM bullet at 1.14 inches; so if you are experiencing jamming, you might want to experiment with these lengths.

Please keep me informed of your future progress.

Thanks!


Sieger

P.S. Nice looking Luger!

Schutzenbob,

I have found two 100 grain Rainier bullets in .312 diameter, one flat point and one hollow point.

Is the flat point the one you are loading?

Thanks!


Sieger

Sieger,

I went shooting this morning, and the WSF seems to be quite accurate and very clean burning. Out of 50 shots I had three jams, but nothing serious. I'm using the flat point Rainier bullet, 1.173" So far so good!

Schutzenbob,

To eliminate those jams, try those flat points at an O.A.L. of 1.14 inches.

Also, please read my sticky, in this reloading section, on "Determining Proper Cartridge O.A.L.". This should help your understanding of the absolute necessity of proper O.A.L. requirements when Luger shooting, as improper O.A.L.s equals a jamming Luger.

Latter up your charges, with three shot groups, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2 etc., until either maximum accuracy is obtained or you "outrun your springs". Accuracy will drop off and jamming will start, again, when this happens.

I'm glad that WSF is clean burning in a pistol, as 800X fired like coal soot in my Luger.

Please keep me up to date with your progress.


Sieger

Exactly why I do not shoot Bullseye in anything. ;)

Sheepherder,

Bullseye burns very cleanly in a 9mm.

Are you just joking me?


Sieger

Not at all. After 48 years of shooting/reloading, Bullseye is the dirtiest burning powder I've encountered. Two weeks ago, I shot 150 rds of .45 ACP w/200 grs LWC and 4.2/4.5 grs Bullseye. My fingers looked like I had been handling charcoal. :(

These were reloads I had made up before I could get Red Dot and the Bullseye was all I had. It was that or nothing.

I've grown to like Red Dot. Unlike Bullseye, it only requires a superficial cleaning to remove burnt powder from the chamber/bore and feed ramp/breechface. And the amount required is almost exactly the same as Bullseye. :thumbup:

Of course, your experiences may differ. :D

Sheepherder,

That's very interesting. Powders often burn very differently in different caliber pistols and shotguns.

The very cleanest burning I've found, in the 9mm Luger, has been HS-6, also used as a shotgun powder. Though not as accurate as Power Pistol, this powder burns so cleanly, in my 9mm Luger, that you can barely tell the cartridge was fired at all!

My brother warned me, before I bought my first pound, that HS-6, in his 12 gage trap shotgun, was a filthy burner and that he thought that I would be very disappointed with it.

Well, it is what it is, I guess.

Filthy powders for me, in the 9mm, have been Unique and 800X, both yielding only so, so accuracy at best, by the way.

Red Dot has proven to be a very accurate powder in the 9mm, though somewhat lacking in higher velocity accuracy.

Can you identify any other "coal soot burners" in the 9mm?


Sieger

My favorite powder from the 1970's/1980's came in a square (or rectangular?) can painted black with a metal press-in stopper on top. I forget the name, because just when I had my various handguns dialed in with it, the company disappeared. Bought out, no longer imported, or bankrupt. I never saw it again and it's no longer stocked anywhere I can find. :crying:

Edit: I found a reference to my mysterious powder in my wildcatting notes; it was Alcan AL-5 (later called AA No 5).

Pic below. Various sources say that S&W bought them out, produced for a year or so, and then discontinued them. :(

I used 5.0grs AL-5 with a 95gr FMJ/RN in my 30 Mauser for target/plinking, and 5.5grs for 'hunting'. Good velocity, that. :)

Sheepherder,

You know, that is often true with reloading components.

Two victims, in the last year or so, for me have been Hornady's 9mm 124 gr. FMJ-FPs and Alliant's SR 4756 powder.

Well, life wont be boring anyway, with so many new combinations out there to test currently.


Sieger

Sieger,

I went out this morning and shot my 7.65 with 5 grains of Winchester WSF, an OAL of 1.158" and it came off without a hitch. Although I need to work on my trigger control, the gun seems to shoot well, and is very flat shooting. Do you have any idea what powder DWM used in the 1920's?

Hi,

DWM's powder is years out of production, but they used the exact same load, 5.4 grains, in both the 9mm and 7.65mm.

Medium/slow powders, in the Luger, have always given me trustworthy accuracy and top performance. In fact, my most accurate loads, with the 9mm 124 grainers, with Power Pistol, AA5, SR 4756 and others have all been in the 5.1 to 5.5 grain range. These modern powders are all in the medium/slow burning range, by the way.

Again, WSF should be an excellent powder choice in the 7.65mm.

It sounds like that O.A.L. has been properly determined, too!

Are there any pressure signs on those necks using a .312 bullet in a .311 barrel? My 7.65s have worked just great with them.

How is your accuracy?


Good shooting,

Sieger

I've had very good results with my 7.65 load of 5.2 grains of Winchester Super Field "WSF" ball powder with the Rainier 100 grain .312 bullet. My pistol seems to like an over all length of 1.150" and never seems to skip a beat, WSF is also very clean burning. Now it's just a matter of improving my shooting skills!

Shutzenbob,

Interesting WSF on the burn speed chart #25 is exactly between the two powders I am testing #23 7625 (4.5gr) and #28 Herco (5gr) , so far the Herco results have been better.

The Luger trigger takes a bit to get used to, but I (new to Luger) am finding the trigger much easier with a little practice - still very different feel than my other guns