1917 DWM Luger - Please help !!!
 

I am clueless to what I've inherited. All I can say is that it originated from my grandfather, an officer in WW II. As the story goes it was taken from a fallen German officer on the battlefield. A story I can, in no way, verify.

It has a 1917 year stamped on it behind the rear sight. Each part has 2 digits stamped on them which coincide with the serial number of 7293. It has a leather holster and two magazines. The leather holster is black with no discernible markings and the two magazines only have a "Made in Germany" DWM marking.

The grips are made of wood and, as far as I know, there have been no mod's done to the weapon. It is still in, what I consider, an excellent and firing condition.

There are 4 symbols on the right side of the breach and a series of characters and numbers on the right side of the barrel below the rear gunsight.

All comments / observations will be greatly appreciated. (I could add photo's if I knew how).

Any comment will be greatly appreciated.

Mark...I would love to help you but a bit confused...."1917 year stamped on it behind the rear sight"...."on the right side of the barrel below the rear gunsight"...are you looking at this correct?. Are the mag bottoms aluminum or wood, why do you say this is a DWM marking?...look under holster flap and on back, look real good but you should find some mark, anything would help is answering you questions...and a picture or two would really help...

Mark,
How long is the barrel. If the date is behind the rear sight, it sounds like an artillery model.
Best Regards,
Bill

Mark,

there is a fine tutorial on uploading photos into your message posts at the top of the message thread list in the Site Help & Feedback Forum...

If you read that and are familiar with Microsoft Windows and browsing the Internet, then you should be able to upload photos without too much trouble... But, if after reading the tutorial, you still can't upload photos, please let us know and someone will be glad to help you throught the upload photo process.

Some additional questions in the mean time...

The barrel length is determined by inserting a cleaning rod until it touches the bolt face (with the toggle down) and marking the cleaning rod at the muzzle... then remove the cleaning rod and measure the distanct from the mark to the tip of the rod...Is the rear sight in front of the chamber? or on the rearmost part of the toggle?

Between the rear sight and forward of the breach is stamped 1917. The mags are of aluminium with a DWM and Made in Germany stamp ( No serial number ).

The barrel is +/- 19 cms long.

Photo syntax edited to provide thumbnails by Admin-JS... click on them to see the photos full size...

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Mark, What you have is a very nice Artillery Model Luger... in what appears to be very nice shape. It may be a commercial gun rather than military production, but it may have been pressed into military service...

Would it be possible for you to photograph the markings on the magazines?

Are the bottoms of the magazines made of wood or plastic?

Can you use a white grease pencil to fill in the stamps that are barely visible on the right side of the barrel in your last photo? and then rephotograph that area?

The holster may well be the most intriguing part of this set. Is the holster marked at all? May we see photos of the back of the holster?

Although very difficult to make out, the markings on the right hand side of the barrel seem to follow the pattern and flow one would expect with a British proofed pistol. Most "Brits" I have seen were along the bottum of the barrel.

The magazines appear to be post 1945. They seem to be plastic plugs. Damned if I have ever heard of a DWM marked mag.

Nice looking LP08.

Exactly my point on asking for additional photos of the mags George... This is an Interesting rig for sure... I look forward to additional photos if Mark can find the time.

I also can't quite tell if the gun has been reblued from these photos... the small parts look like they could be either blue or strawed...depending on the photograph.

For that matter, all of the accessories may turn out to be aftermarket things his Dad bought to go with his Luger...

Hi there all. I had to borrow a friends digital to get better res pics so here goes.

The markings on the side of the barrel are as follows:
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/markings_1.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/markings_2.jpg

I can barely make out the markings under the barrel with the exception of the full serial number.

The back of the mag, not DWM (my mistake):
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/mag_rear.jpg

There are no markings front, back or inside the holster. A request was made for the back of the holster:
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/holster_back.jpg

I took 2 further pics of the weapon:
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_rs.jpg
http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/luger_ls.jpg

I hope these will suffice for all the questions asked. I'm mighty impressed and very grateful for the responses I've had so far. Thanks a mill.

Regards.

Mark, the pistol, at some time in the past, travelled through England and was proofed there. The pistol is an LP08 or Langepistole 1908. This model of Luger was issued to artillery and machinegun troops initially and later in 1917 was given to shock troops as well. 1917 is the most common date of LP08.

Very few LP08's saw service in WWII. Your grand dad probably picked this pistol up in England. The magazines are post WWII commercial jobs. The holster is non standard and very interesting. The holster may be worth as much as the pistol.

Hi George

I have confirmation from my mother that my grandfather, then a captain in the British Army, picked the pistol up during WW I. He'd already moved to Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) when WW II broke out.

Thanks.

That explains it.

Hey Mark, Please do me a favor and replace your avatar with this photo where I have cropped out the white space... The extra space distorts the appearance of the page...

Thanks,

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/markravatar.jpg

Mark, the manufacturer's name on your magazine is "ERMA" and they have been in business in Germany for many years. IIRC, Erma made some of the first submachineguns used by the Germans in WW1... but don't quote me on that! I presently own an Erma ESP-85 target .22 that is of the highest quality and looks very much like earlier Hammerli target pistols.

I do agree though that the mags are likely later additions to the pistol and not WW1 or WW2 vintage.

Thank you Doubs for the input regarding the mags and John for the cropped avatar (sorry about that). According to my family the holster, as far as their memory goes back has always been with the Luger. Poses a bit of an enigma in the sense that the leather use looks too "new" to date back that far. It is also a very very hard "stiff" leather. I have to push relatively hard to try and dent the side.

Sorry guys. I meant to ask this in my previous reply. Anyone care to hazard a guess as to the value the pistol ?

Pistol $1200-$2000
Mags $48
Holster ?$500-$1200?

Mark, don't use any grease on the holster and don't store the pistol in the holster naked. Oil the pistol, put it in a poly bag or poly bread bag, wrap it tightly then stick it in the holster. Don't think of upgrading the pistol by having it reblued or "restored," it will quickly lose thirty percent of its value if you do.

Thank you for the valuation. I now have to take the maximums you quoted and multiply by 6.7 to get to a value in our currency. My insurers are going to love me as I don't have any intention of selling.

Can anyone confirm or shoot down something I heard that one is able to write to the German archives should one want a history on the weapon ? If this is so can anyone point me into the right direction to start the enquiries ?

Reading through all the different posts on your forum I feel honoured to own such a weapon. It appears to generate a lot of enthusiasm. I have fired the pistol but with our standard 9 mm ammo the expended cartridge fails to clear the breech and jams with the live round half way into the chamber and the expended cartridge on the way out.

Another question I have is, in it's condition and with the apparent originality should I be using it as a shooter or should I rather find another Luger to use as a shooter.

If I may say I believe this pistol has me hooked and I hope to be around on this forum regularly in the future - especially considering I'm what you would class a newbie.

I have an apology to make. TacFoley, on Gunboards.Com, pointed out I revise my story regarding how the pistol came into our family's possesion being that it had been through the Birmingham Proof House according to the markings. It was no intention of mine to mislead anyone as I can only quote what I was told.

One thing I can remeber about my grandfather is that he was a great leg puller and I can just imagine him having a quiet chuckle at spinning this yarn - something he took to the grave with him.

tac, how did you acquire priceless American treasures of that sort? The last I'd heard, those are the exact items taken from the Capitol Building in 1814 when your hungry ancestors made a bonfire of ol' DC while roasting their bangers for supper. You can set the whole matter straight by leaving them to me in your will. :D

Tac,
Your ancestors also looted my family's church and home in 1814. But what the hell, we kicked your asses back across the Atlantic and are glad to have you as allies now.

Hi Mark,

Belated "Welcome to the Luger Forum".

Thanks for posting your Artillery luger !

It looks like your 1917 has both the fine-tune (adjustable) front and rear sights...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Thank you Pete. Yes it does.

Anyone care to advise me on whether I should use this pistol or encase it in a display cabinet. Would seem such a pity not to use it as it's still in beautiful condition and sure to turn heads at the shooting range.

I believe this could be a touchy subject as I have come across posts where references have been made about heated discussions regarding this. Anyone care to inform me what the verdict is ? :-)

If it can still be used as a shooter what should I do regarding the jamming problem ? As I mentioned before the spent cartridge doesn't clear quickly enough and when it jams it has the live round half way up into the chamber and the spent round jammed between the breech block and the chamber.

Mark, You need some more powerful ammo. With the last round in the chamber fired , does the holdopen activate and keep the toggle back?

I have broken many parts on Lugers. For years I thought this would not be a problem but found it is likely to happen at any time. Grips cracking, extractors breaking etc. I like to shoot my weapons but there are some I will not shoot including my 1916 marked Artillery, all matching including magazine. Too expensive to break a part and I have another shooter Artillery anyway.
Good Luck! Jerry Burney

Dear Mr. Tac, I yield to your superior story-telling talents. I am impressed by your knowledge of our patriots.

I'm reminded of a gentleman who was for many years a photographer for the "Baltimore Sun" newspaper, a well respected publication. His name was A. Aubrey Bodine and he was somewhat peculiar in certain respects. He would, on occasion, write to the US government and remind them that they still owed his family compensation for the financial loss suffered when they freed the family slaves! This went on for some years in the early part of the 20th Century. His photographs are known world-wide and in that regard he was a very talented individual.

Hi Folks---A really super forum,very informative and friendly,a plus side of the internet and its reach.My neighbor sold me a Luger last week,he did'nt know what it was,said his Brother in laws grandfather brought it back from WWII. He died last month and they were disposing of his things.If any of y'all would help me id it and get a handle on the the value I would be very appreciative.I'll try to give you a good discription without pictures,but if necessary,I will arrange for them.I read your questions and replies to Mark R and I can see that you all KNOW your stuff.---1917 on top,directly behind 1917 is a small stamp-93,behind that-DMW and 93, then to the rear sight,which is an adjustable target sight mounted on the rear toggle with the word MICRO.Now to the left side--stamped in the barrel at the rear by the threads is 9MM Barrel by SS&D,moving back along the left side 6942,under that on the latch is 42,then back 1 inch to the sheet metal cover,42.now back 1 inch to the angled flat bar which moves up and down when the safety is moved, 42. under the safety,GESICHERT. now to the right side,four stamps just behind the barrel thread,from front to back--a standing eagle,--a S with a crown,---a S with a crown,-- a (looks like a CJ with a crown) now to the rear in the rough machined area,a block stamp with a 3 in it,--a block stamp(double border)can't read the number. Now to the bottom--just in front of the trigger guard 6342 with a C under. The Mag# is 3322,(made of wood). The barrel is 11&1/2 inches long with a fixed sight at front. The weapon is in very good cond. considering the florida climate conditions. It has a holster,brown leather,large flap.one strap to hold the gun in,two straps to hold the flap down. Snap buttons front and back,looks like some kind of shoulder rig. (I don't have the upper part. Hope this gives you all some clues. Best to you all. Codge.

Codge, can you start a new thread, so it highlights your Luger?

You can "copy and paste" and make a New Posting.

Thanks,

Ed

Edward,Thank you for your reply.To be honest,No Sir,I can't. May I ask for a bit of your generousity and ask you to do that,or ask John D to make the change.If all else fails I can retype it and click on "new topic". Best to you---codge

codge, it is easier than it sounds, but if you click on new topic and leave it blank, then i will fill your info out for you!! (in that way, it goes in your name)

:)

and an honest reply always goes a long way with me! :D

eduardo