Is it legal to own?
 

Gentlemen...Thank you for letting me in. I am retired to Vermont from New York City where I had a 40 year Heavy Construction career.
I have tried the search feature but probably didn't state my question correctly.
Provided you had the proper permits, licenses, etc. for your state: Is it legal to own/possess a "standard" Luger. (no stock, no long barrel, etc.) One that was brought back as a WWII war prize?
Something like this wouldn't have any kind of paper trail. Wouldn't something be needed in some places?
Thank you, Jack

Jack, all depends on your local laws. I have bought many guns over the years without any paper trail, because I bought them from private individuals.

You can own an original artillery luger, with a stock and it is legal, without any paperwork.

Everything depends on how you buy a gun and on your state laws.

In Hawaii, to be legal, I had to register my guns, all other states I was in required NO registration. I do not know Vermont laws, but where I have lived; in Alabama, Louisianna, Washington and Montana, private sales required no paperwork.

You have lived most of your life under restrictive gun laws, many states do not have these requirements.

Ed

Jack, Welcome to the Lugerforum.

Gun laws vary by state and often by local jurisdiction. Your best source of this information is the NRA website:

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=state

or your local or state police.

New York has VERY strict gun laws, but Vermont is very lenient where gun ownership and possession is concerned...here is the direct link to the NRA summary of Vermont's gun laws.

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=Detail&R=VT

You should require no permit or registration to possess a WW2 gun relic like a Luger (or any other modern gun for that matter) in Vermont...but I caution you to investigate the laws in surrounding states before you travel with a firearm in your possession.

Tell us about your Luger... there are identification sheets in the General Information page that you can print out and once you have all the information the forum membership will be glad to tell you as much about your Luger as is known.

Ed and John...Thank you very much for your replies..I thought you would catch on!
In about a month or so I will be catching up to it. It has been under wraps for a long time where it was legal to be there.
I did a search on it through a book called "The Luger" years ago. 9mm, 1914 (possibly 1912) Erfurt with a 'standard' (4") barrel. I say standard because while checking nothing special comes to mind. I have forgotten the S/N and the markings. There is a black belt holster with large flap and two magazines (at least one has matching S/N). The Luger is an untouched original with all matching numbers. When last seen it had an even overall patina and very good bore.If I remember right there are wooden grips. The ONLY thing is the side plate is missing. (I think that is what it is called, the part on the left that connects the trigger to the (sear?)) Think this had to be done in order to bring it back.
Is a side plate a fitted item? I think they were numbered as well. Is this a big issue to an overall original? It has to be replaced or else it is a pretty paperweight!
Would shooting it occasionally be a detriment? I really would like to, at least at first after I get it. It would be the first time in about 60 years that it has fired.
Could you advise me of someone in Vermont to have it checked out? I really don't want to "mail" it anywhere.
One thing that has always puzzled me: why would a German Officer 1942-1944 (Who surrendered it) have a WWl Luger? (Father's weapon?)
It does have it's own little war story.
This is quite a forum here and hope you don't mind me snooping around in it. I have already begun to assemble 'The Luger' story in my head!
This is a whole new area of firearms for me. Understandably very addictive...Think I could get the 'flu' very easily.

To get this far to actually possesing it has been a saga in it's self. I've waited all this time but now as the time gets close I'm real twitchy waiting!
Thanking you. Regards, Jack

Jack, make sure you explore extensively, that is why we are here!

The sideplate, also called trigger plate and a few other names is a fitted item, but you can find sideplates on e-bay.com very often, plus several members sell parts on the forum.

Having a mismatched sideplate is a bad thing as a collector item, it brings the value down a lot.

Many WW1 Lugers were used in WW2, as they kept using them through WW1, then the Weimar period and then WW2. So, not a big surprise at all.

I collect stories, of guns brought back, and also pictures of the guns.

:)

Ed

Thank you Ed..It seems from pictures the Triggerplate only has the last two numbers of the S/N. Would there be a possibility of finding such a numbered plate. Would this make things any better and is this an accepted practice? I am not looking to cheat. Are there blank new ones that can be stamped to make it at least look better. What would be the accepted way to go? It has to have something..

I am still curious about firing it.
I own an original Spencer and Burnside Carbines that drive me crazy not to fire but common sense dictates that fate!
Is it alright to stay on this thread to ask questions for a while?
Thank you, Jack

Jack, this is a very controversial practice to put a part on and especially to force match one, I know that it is done, but some people say it is boosting or bolstering a gun.

I feel it is much less "bad" to put on a period part with the same number, then to put on a blank one and put a number onto it.

And, even if something is controversial, you are welcome to discuss it, tooooo controversial, and we'll correct or end the thread. And you can post in any part of the forum, we just try to keep the topic in the "correct" part of the forum, i.e. WW2 guns in WW2, early guns in early, etc.

Ed

Ed..No intention of getting in trouble from the get go..That is why I asked the question. The only way a beginner can learn is to ask open upfront questions. Seems I'll get a blank one first and then try to find a same number one later on. I'll make note of it on my inventory sheet.

Thank you for all your help. Can't do much more until it's physically in my hands. Then I can fill out the form, some pictures and maybe you can have a go at it!

This is quite a forum. I think I have figured out what goes in the little pouch under the holster flap. Loading tool? I'll need one of these too!
Again thank you for all the help.
Regards, Jack

yes, the magazine can make your finger hurt after a bit and the loading tool, is also called a take down tool, used to take the grips off and the firing pin apart.

Ed

Thanks Ed..I'll be back when she arrives.
Regards, Jack

Jack,
* Maybe we need to refine your triggerplate criteria a bit more to avoid later disappointment.
* An Erfurt sideplate will have, in addition to a 2 digit number, a crown over a Fraktur Capital letter as applied by the Army Acceptance Inspector at the Erfurt arsenal.
* The triggerplate will also be "Rust Blued" as opposed to a hot salt blue common to Lugers made after mid 1937 by, say, Mauser.
* The search feature of this Forum will yield pictures of Erfurt Lugers contemporary to your hidden treasure. Search on only the one word Erfurt (for example), open up the number of months in the search field to the maximum, and make sure the date range spans the maximum time frame this Forum has been in existence. These pictures will show Erfurts having the placement of the Crown/Letter Inspector's Acceptance stamp and the adjacent 2 digit number located approximately in the middle of the flat vertical surface and to the right of the sideplate's "hump". Generally a space is between these 2 sets of markings. Ed T may be kind enough to post a picture of his 1912(?) Erfurt again or lead you to the thread's title.
* The sideplate should be of the same relative condition of the pistol; although the side plate usually shows a bit more wear on it's leading edges and "hump" from holstering. About the same amount of blue coverage and color, patina of the blue from age/storage, nicks/scratches, etc. so that it doesn't stand out like a sore thumb.
* Getting impossible?? Consider: the 2 digits will repeat for every 100 Erfurts made. Jan Still's, in his book Imperial Lugers, Pg. 16 estimates 519,000 Erfurts were made in 1911-1918 when Erfurt was forced by the Versailles Treaty to ceased production after WW1's end. So 5190 Erfurt Luger sideplates were Mfg. with the 2 digits which match the last 2 digits of your example notwithstanding condition and/or blank but inspector accepted replacement/overrun parts produced. There is a chance with the "Wanted" listings of this Forum, E-Bay, Gun Parts of America, Marstars, Parts Dealers who part out old Erfurts, etc. if you're patient.
* I will not address the ethical considerations involved. Other Threads, most recently the current one running on "Bluing touch-up", address a good cross section of Forum members opinions. I'll just say what Popeye says..."I yam what I yam!" It is what it is.
* Obviously, you will need a sideplate to make this piece functional. Sideplates were held to be replaceable by virtue of Mfg. tolerances. But, this is one of the more critical pieces to a Luger's "problems free" operation. As such, fitting to a particular pistol's idiosyncracies was common. Then time, wear, abuse, "smithing" all affect what you may receive today. Get an Inspection period to be able to try a purchased sideplate out before consummating a deal.
* As to firing your Luger:
(1) It is not recommended to shoot a collector's grade Luger as one breakage of a numbered matching part seriously affects the sale value of the piece. Approximately 50% reduction. Same similar reasons as for your Carbines.
(2) However: Accepting the risk implied in (1) above...The first regular arms length Forum response is to get a competant gunsmith familiar with Lugers to check the piece out before you attempt to shoot it to assure it is safe. The second is to buy a "shooter" and enjoy shooting it while maintaining/appreciating your collectable P.08 as an Investment and Historical testiment.
(3) Tempering (1) & (2) above, I pragmatically note a number of Forum members favor WallyWorld's 9mm as reliable and reasonably inexpensive ammo.
* Trust this helps you to know what exactly to look for.
Enjoy,
Bob

Jack,

I think you picked a good solution (for now) for your sideplate problem. Get a blank one for now made by the proper manufacturer and watch for a proper numbered one. I would suggest inquiring to Tom Heller (LugerDoc) for all of your needs. I have a 1915 Mauser all matching that came with a standard matching (but unfluted) firing pin. You may see posts on this, but various experts discourage shooting such guns without replacing the firing pin with a fluted one. I put my existing firing pin aside and bought an unnumbered fluted pin from Tom for shooting. Anyway, my gun can be restored to all matching, but I can shoot it with a safe (I hope) firing pin.

Enjoy your gun. I worked in White Plains for awhile, but I refused to live in NY state. I lived in CT where the laws were much more liberal at the time. I personally enjoy many guns and shoot often (about 200 rounds a week). I differ from a lot of the hard core collectors. If I can't shoot it or if it won't shoot, out it goes.

RockinWR and AGE...Thank you for all the sage advise..I have to try and absorb all this. Unfortunately none of this can be used UNTIL I physically have it in my hands. These waiting days are killing me, it has been a long long wait. It is however, refreshing to be able to to talk about it in the open. For too many years it could only be breifly mentioned softly behind closed doors.
When I finally do get it, I will definitely bring it up so that I will finally know "what it is". Then I will go from there.
I am quite aware of the importance of firing vs. not firing. I have a long arm that I retired years ago. On the other hand I have some older collectables (Marlins & Winchesters) that are hunters/shooters. That they are still fully functional and group quite well ADS to their value!
Out of curiosity, how good of a shooter is a Luger? Were some vintages better than others?
Thanking you very much, Jack

I never met a Luger I didn't like... They are very accurate guns. Even when they have what appears to be shot out, or corroded bores they shoot suprisingly well.

John.. Thank you. Have just done a preliminary "Erfurt" search and got 215 listings! (RockinWR) I think I am just gettin' started. (Think I'll be in there for a week!) I really appreciate everybody's input. There are forums out there that just dust you off if you are not an insider!
Regards, Jack

Jack,

They really do shoot very well. This is just one example of targets that have been posted on the forum in the past. I shot this one with my '36 Mauser shooter.

http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/62003TG4.jpg

AGE does it from like 50 feet, I can easily do the same, but I shoot from 5 feet :D

With a rest :D

no, no, I can do this good, well almost, using just both hands across my knees, sitting down and leaning against the tractor.

Edward, do you have any recommendations as to the type of tractor?

Has to be a FORD :D

Ed (Jack and other guys),

This target was a 7 shot group fired carefully (two hands, slow fire, good sight focus, etc. etc.) but not from a rest. The range was about 60 feet (the target distance is anywhere you put your target frame here in WV). My gun has a slightly improved trigger and it is well sighted in (both per Hugh's instructions), but the trigger is still heavy and gritty per 1911 standards.

I admit that I can't do this every day, I usually drop more than one shot from the group and it is very hard to shoot this gun rapidly. Nevertheless, the inherant accuracy of this gun is uncanny. If I do my part, it never drops the shot out of the black.

Review some of Thor's targets again. These guns are amazing. Get yourselves some glasses that put the sights in focus (I need them desperately, I turned 69 today), pick up a bushel of ammo and go practice-practice-practice.

I have other accurate guns that are much easier to shoot (especially in rapid fire), but none including my match 1911s that will group like this one.

Gotta go now. It's off to the range--happy birthday to me.

Gentlemen...Been reading about their quality control and hand fitted parts, they surely are target pistols. Boy, did the accuracy question open my eyes.
Everything makes another question: There are definetly (no shooting) collectables. Then there are the shooters. Seems that the shooters are made from mismatched parts. Wouldn't that lead to less accurate shooters with malfunctions?

I was snooping around last night about holsters. a fellow was trying to id the markings. By the time the posts were getting to the end, not only was it id'd but almost the person who did the stiching was named. Where/how do you possibly know all this stuff. It is incredable!!! I hope all the info is being saved somewhere for all humanity..
Regards, Jack

Jack,

My '36 Mauser is a shooter because it has been refinished and the grips replaced. It is not cobbled up from a lot of mismatched parts. All parts are matching and it looks to be in great condition. However, it has been salt blued and everything is blue, even the parts that should be strawed. Therefore, it is not a collector.

That's great as far as I'm concerned because the price I paid for it was reasonable. (As I said before, I am a shooter not a hard core collector.) I should also note that it is tight enough that it must be cleaned and lubed after about 200-250 rounds, unburned powder residue starts to induce malfunctions.

Thanks AGE...I am starting to put some education together and think I see what the dividing line is.
Suppose for a minute that my P-08 (I think this is how it is said it should be referred to) never happens. (I shudder on that!) What would a real world price be for a nice shooter? One that upon buying, take it and start shooting. (No work or checking out) Something from a really reliable person/dealer. I do realize that most of the fun is in the hunt. (Been there but only AFTER I know what I'm doing!)
Thank you, Jack

If anybody wants to jump in, please do. Any input will be greatly appreciated! Thanx

Jack,

I admit that I paid $500 for my '36 Mauser and also bought grips and a couple of magazines. I never like to add up this stuff, but the total for that gun is well below $600. I'm happy with the deal, but others often brag about better deals.

Remember, all of these guns are old-old-old. Mine are 68 (Mauser) and 88 (DWM) years old (but I also shoot 1911 Colts which are at least 76 years old). Neither of the Lugers have perfect barrels; both are decent but have dark bores. Either one may malfunction at any time and I realize that. Since I shoot them, I realize that I may break something, but if it happens I will just replace that part with an unmarked part.

Regarding safety, you can't be too careful. I wouldn't choose either gun for self defense because of their ages and awkward safety. I would never carry one with a loaded chamber. I suppose that there is even a slight chance of a blowup, but I only use relatively mild Wal-Mart Winchester ammo and pray that that won't occur.

Good luck and be careful.

AGE...Thank you for your sincere honest reply. I know I have a lot to learn. This seems to be a very interesting area of firearms.
I had been giving thoughts about the Sharps Rifles but there really isn't anywhere to shoot them (in Vermont)to their potential 800/900/1000 yds. As though I could see that far! I get whims sometimes. The P-08's though...hmmmm!
I have a "Holy Grail" collectable sxs shotgun (only 22 made in ALL gauges) that I think it's about time to 'pass on'. It would take a while to sell being a niche market. A Luger(s) on the other hand would be almost instantanious for heirs to dispose of.
It is strange, I never thought I would be really interested in handguns. Now I see myself being drawn in. I have shot Ruger .22 target pistols and enjoyed shooting them. (I impressed myself) The "Luger" grip is just so right!
My true loves are Lever Actions. Funny, I feel defensless if they are not nearby. I quess it's what you are used to.(55years of shooting them) Who knows, with luck maybe I could get another good 15/20 years with a P-08. By then I would have to tie it to something to steady it!
Regards, Jack

Jack,

I started shooting in high school--got a letter with my Remington 513T, then Uncle Sam familiarized me with the M1 Garand. These are two great rifles that I still own. Yes, the old cowboy movies motivated me to buy a couple of Winchester 94s. Neat, but poor shooters unless scoped and then not so neat. Then I found the AR-15 when the media began knocking it. I had to have one and it's the greatest of all rifles in my opinion. Mine has a red dot sight--accurate and fast.

My real interest however is handguns. Colt single actions are the neatest works of art and would have been real innovations in 1873. The movies and TV undoubtedly influenced me, but I love them (I have two). I could still live with one as my only gun, but they aren't the best shooters. Lugers are the next neatest works of art, feel great, shoot great, etc. but are difficult to shoot fast or well. Overall, the Colt 1911 .45 is my favorite shooter (I have a bunch of them in all varieties) as it is very accurate (at least when worked over by an expert--although it won't group as well as a Luger), highly reliable, easy to get parts or service for, and is easy to shoot fast and hit things with.

I guess it is obvious that I am a real gun nut. Funny, I'm not even a hunter and certainly not a hard core collector. I just like to punch paper and have participated in both rifle and pistol matches for almost 60 years. I like them all (and have most of them) but I prefer the name brand U.S. guns with the exception of the Luger. Maybe the various spy and war movies attracted me to them. Anyway, get your Luger out to the range whenever you can and enjoy your Ruger, Sharps, etc. By the way, join the NRA if you haven't done so yet.