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sverre

03-29-2004 09:08 PM

question on when the last lugers were made

were the last lugers the byf 41\42? were they made on license after that in other countries?

Johnny C. Kitchens

03-29-2004 11:08 PM

The official end came about in June 1942. They continued assembly from parts till December 1942. There doesn't appear to be any records of byf being made in other countries, although after the German military stopped accepting them some were sent to countries, such as Portugual...

kidvett

03-29-2004 11:09 PM

Hello,

If I'm not mistaken, the last Mauser produced P08s were the BYF 42 M Block that were sent to Portugal as their model 943 pistol... ( This specific information is found in III Reich Lugers by J. C. Still )

Frank, can you help on this `` last P08s `` topic........THX,

MARK :)

John Sabato

03-30-2004 09:38 AM

I think you guys are forgetting about the Mauser Production of the Luger in the 1970's & 80's... those are REAL Lugers too! and I believe the Swiss manufactured their Lugers until about 1952, but I am separated from my reference library at the moment... so maybe someone else can comment on Swiss production?

Pete Ebbink are you listening? :confused:

Frank

03-30-2004 11:05 AM

The last Lugers were made in 1945, except the post war Lugers made by both Mauser and Aimco (Stoeger). They are called Krieghoffs!!!!

:)

I meant to say Third Reich Lugers!!

Pete Ebbink

03-30-2004 02:32 PM

Sorry...John...

The last Swiss lugers by Bern were made in 1947 (commerical series).

But then there was one (1) prototype (model 29/65 W+F) they made in 1965 at the request of the Interarms folks. Turned out this one cost too much to make, so Sam Cummins went to the Mauser folks. I think the Bern folks sold their swiss machinery to the Mauser/Interarms folks which started making the swiss-style lugers in the early 1970's.

p.s. What about the "French lugers"...??? When were those assembled...?

Regards,

Pete...

Ron Wood

03-30-2004 03:14 PM

I can't help it...I have to say it: The last real Lugers were made in 1918! :p

John D.

03-30-2004 03:26 PM

John Sabato

03-30-2004 03:34 PM

Me too John D. ! :D That Ron Wood dude sure is hard headed about that issue!

http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/headbumper.gif

Ron Wood

03-30-2004 04:14 PM

To be perfectly honest, in weaker moments in the past I have owned an early S-Code Krieghoff, a Simson, a banner Mauser, a byf, a S/42 and probably a couple of others I have forgotten about. And currently I own a Portuguese GNR, a KOL Dutch, a Vickers, a '29 Swiss and a M23 Finnish. So every now and then I do get soft in the head.

Edward Tinker

03-30-2004 04:19 PM

And I seem to remember a sweet "larger" Luger made in Kaliforinia?

Ed

Ron Wood

03-30-2004 04:22 PM

Yeah, I really went soft in the head that time (kicked the stuffings out of my wallet too).

Edward Tinker

03-30-2004 04:38 PM

But we ought to go shootin' :D

Seriously, since I am so "close" now, I ought to make it down there, the Asst. Provost Marshal is a civ and a close friend of mine, so two birds with one stone? Whens the house going to be finished? (I'll delete this posting after a bit, I am at work, so no e-mail contacts to ask this same questions).

John Sabato

03-30-2004 04:40 PM

Something tells me that the neither the group of "imitation" Lugers you listed, nor the LARGE one will depreciate in value in my lifetime... that softspot isn't as soft as you make it out to be... :)

Strider

03-30-2004 04:47 PM

Ed, don't forget to stop and say hi if you drive to El Paso. I am sure Thor and as well as myself would like to get together and meet.

John & John, I have to agree with both of you. Just read my signature block. :D

Sid.

Edward Tinker

03-30-2004 04:57 PM

437 miles to Peralta, New Mexico, so we'll see. When I have extra time :D But that would be really nice to see people! :)

Ed

Ron Wood

03-30-2004 05:03 PM

We break ground on the new house next week! Target completion date is 15 September.

BTW Ed, our son lives in Boulder CO, so when we go to see him you are in real danger of a drop in visit some day.

Prototype!!! Man those things are valuable! And to think...they got it right so early on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

John D.

03-30-2004 06:26 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Strider:
....If it is made before 1930 ..........It is a prototype..<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
_________ <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
___________________ <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />
<img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Ron Wood:
We break ground on the new house next week! Target completion date is 15 September.....<hr /></blockquote>You are having a target painted on the side of your house??? Wow - the Zoning Board must be having a fit - not to mention your neighbors..??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Thor	03-30-2004 06:38 PM

Good catch John of Dunkle!! Quick eyes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

John Sabato

03-30-2004 07:00 PM

Pete, I believe that the French Lugers were produced (assembled ? ) in 1945-46, but I don't have any references available as I type this...

can someone else confirm this?

Strider

03-30-2004 07:21 PM

Originally posted by John D.:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> You are having a target painted on the side of your house??? Wow - the Zoning Board must be having a fit - not to mention your neighbors..??? <hr /></blockquote>I think the Mrs. would have something to say about that. I think she would rather have air conditioning instead of ventalation. :D It does get hot down there.

Congrats on the new house Ron.
<img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />

Sid.

Johnny C. Kitchens

03-30-2004 11:15 PM

I thought he was asking about the byf specifically...

kidvett

03-31-2004 01:03 AM

I agree with Johnny...on those BYF...

Sveere,

The last 2 years of Mauser production of P08s made for the German Military are as follows:

41 date Code 42 SE655 7000 produced
41 date BYF 1st Variation SE655 122 000 produced
41 date BYF 2nd Variation SE135 4000 produced
42 date BYF SE135 113 000 produced

Then phased out in favor of the P38......

MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Vlim	03-31-2004 01:04 PM

Hi,

Some additional info:

If we take into account that there were 3 surviving production lines:
Krieghoff, Suhl.
Mauser, Oberndorf am N.
Eidgn. Waffenfabr. Bern, Switzerland.

There were some Krieghoffs assembled in 1945.
There were a bunch of Mausers assembled during French occupation from 1945 - 1947.
The swiss produced unti 1949.

Then there was a moment of lugerlessness from 1949 until 1967. Mauser bought the Swiss machinery and started producing again. Since they were made by a 'real' P08 producer on 'real' P08 equipment, I regard them as real.

Mauser produced them until the mid-80s. Although there are later ones, these are considered to come from ready-made stock so they no longer required a wide array of production equipment. Since Mauser supplied them well after production was finished it's difficult to give an exact date and since there are still quite a few Mausers awaiting final assembly it's debatable if Parabellum production has halted completely.

But basically we can say that the Military production of the luger stopped in 1949.

sverre

03-31-2004 01:09 PM

wow thanks for all the good answers..

this realy is a great forum!

Johnny C. Kitchens

03-31-2004 11:05 PM

Didn't Mauser finally admit that the Swiss tooling they bought for about $50,000 was useless and ended up creating all new tooling to produce their Parabellums of the 60's, 70's, and 80's. If true then it might be said that five sets of production machinery have been set up to produce Lugers, and that would be counting the set in Texas...

Edward Tinker

03-31-2004 11:33 PM

That is what it said in the recent book on Mauser, that they purchased, then decided it wasn't any good.

Ed

Vlim	04-04-2004 08:11 AM

Hi,

The reason why I spoke about 'Production lines' in stead of tool sets is that Krieghoff also denied using the Simson tooling, but it did mean that the old line disappeared and was replaced by a new one. The same goes for the Bern/Oberndorf line if the story is correct.

But for completeness sake we can say these are the 3 'original' production lines:

Line one:
DWM -> Mauser (Destroyed after 1947)

Line two:
Erfurt -> Simson -> Krieghoff -> VEB Ernst Thalmann -> Unknown (scrapped or stored?)

Line three:
Bern -> Mauser -> Unknown (scrapped or stored?)

I will not add the luger reproduction variations like the Aimco/Orimar/Stoeger/Erma/etc... to this list (yet).

mauro

04-04-2004 05:50 PM

Hello Guys,
For who is interested I have prepared a few weeks ago a web page concerning the P08 and LP08 made under French control. These rare models were made from August 1945 to 5 November 1947 when the Mauser tools were destroyed.
August Weiss was in charge of this production. According to him the production was about 2500-3500 P08s (only a few of LP08s were produced).
At page 91 and 92 are of my book is available a description.
Pictures are available in my web site: http://lugerlp08.free.fr
Then click Ã¢??LP08 made under French controlÃ¢?Â.
I hope this helps.
Ciao
Mauro

John D.

04-04-2004 07:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by G. van Vlimmeren:
....
There were some Krieghoffs assembled in 1945......<hr /></blockquote>Hello Gerben!

As you may know, that statement has been contested by some collectors of note, and as of late - as many believe that the "late variation" 1944 and all 1945 HKs are "faked" in entirety. I know that is incorrect for several reasons - and late 1944 and 1945 were, indeed - included in Military production ranges for HK.

To that point - I am almost ready to provide notes to that effect in public, based on both my research as well as on one of the pieces in my collection I've been researching for a number of years, which I was fortunate enough to come across.

For those research points, I entirely agree with you regarding HK production dates - which INCLUDE through 1945 military production.

My thanks for your post - and the remaining information regarding the other manufacturers. Excellent - and my thanks!

John

Sieger

04-05-2004 12:04 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Edward Tinker:
That is what it said in the recent book on Mauser, that they purchased, then decided it wasn't any good.

Ed<hr /></blockquote>Ed:

I've also read this, but find it hard to believe that Mauser would do such a thing (buy something sight unseen and then claim that is was worthless). What would the old German Professor Doktors say about doing something foolish like that.

If this were true, it seems strange that their product of the early 70s looked so much like a Swiss 29.

Sieger

Edward Tinker

04-05-2004 12:11 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I've also read this, but find it hard to believe that Mauser would do such a thing (buy something sight unseen and then claim that is was worthless). What would the old German Professor Doktors say about doing something foolish like that. If this were true, it seems strange that their product of the early 70s looked so much like a Swiss 29.

Sieger[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>Yes sir, I feel the same way. But from the quote, it sounded plausable.

But my gut feeling is that it is unlikely, but let me look for the quote.

Ed

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