Jan Still booted from forum?!
 

I have just been informed that Jan Still has been booted from the Forum. Tell me it isn't so!

This is wrong.

I know that freedom of speech has its limitations, but I wonder if these have been abused?

We are aware that not all forms of expressions are protected by the Constitution. Libel is a published report of falsehoods that tends to injure a person's reputation or character. Slander is the public utterance of a statement that holds a person up to ridicule, contempt, or hatred. To prove libel and slander, however, certain requirements must be met.The statements must be untrue and must have been made with the intention to do harm, and actual harm must have occurred. Additionally, the courts have ruled that damages cannot be collected for remarks made against someone unless the remarks are proved to have been made with "reckless" disregard for accuracy.

Anything to this, John D.?

That would be regrettable IMHO. <img src="graemlins/icon501.gif" border="0" alt="[icon501]" />
Hopefully there is an alternative.

Luke

Discussion is the fruit of life, and I can see that Jan might have pushed Johns envelope, but I hope that it isn't true either...

[img]frown.gif[/img]

Gentlemen, until you have heard from the Forum Administrator I would not accept this as gospel.

RK

The information that I received came from Jan Still by email. That is half of the equation.

Hi Folks,

The Constitutional guarantee to free speech applies only to government censorship. It has no strength in private discussions.

Please note I have not expressed an opinion on the banning of any member. Iâ??m just attempting to point out â??free speechâ?? is not a valid ground for appeal if anyone is banned, or even has their posts removed or censored.

Warm regards,

Kyrie

[quote]Originally posted by wes:
<strong>I have just been informed that Jan Still has been booted from the Forum. Tell me it isn't so!....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hi Wes..!

I'm just logging in and caught this note. I can assure you that Jan wasn't - and isn't now - booted from this Forum. If he were, I'd probably know (as I'd have to be the one who turned off his rights to post [img]smile.gif[/img] ). Furthermore - no one is "booted" unless John S., DOK and I discuss it before hand - and we've never discussed banning Jan for any reason??

Best to you,

John D.

If the pressure on the LugerForum is from a person that feels that he is libeled or slandered, the laws apply, as I have given examples of what constitutes libel and slander.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

John D.,

check your private posts, please.

Gentlemen,

It appears that I have been foolish enough to have been the dupe (willingly, I am ashamed to admit) of misinformation.

Please have a good laugh on me, and pop-a-top for unabashed stupidity at my expense.

[quote]Originally posted by wes:
<strong>If the pressure on the LugerForum is from a person that feels that he is libeled or slandered, the laws apply, as I have given examples of what constitutes libel and slander.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Hi Wes,

Iâ??m not disputing, and in fact have not commented upon, the slander and libel statutes. I was just point out your reference to free speech was not well taken :-(

Warm regards,

Kyrie

Again, it has been proved we are all human.

[quote]Originally posted by BILL:
<strong>Again, it has been proved we are all human.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hi Bill,

All to true [insert very wry smile here]. If I had a dollar for every time Iâ??d acted like the south half of a north bound horse Iâ??d have had the money to buy a LOT more Lugers :-)

Probably the most embarrassing event in my life involved being locked in the trunk of a car. And no, I wonâ??t say anything more, other than to remark I almost ended up married to the young lady with whom I shared the trunk of that automobile ;-)

Warm regards,

Kyrie

Gentlemen,

Are men still required to do the "honorable thing" nowadays? I don't know that I have any bullets in the house!? <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

[quote]Originally posted by wes:
<strong>Gentlemen,

It appears that I have been foolish enough to have been the dupe (willingly, I am ashamed to admit) of misinformation...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hi Wes,

It's no problem at all. Frankly - if someone tells you they are banned, simply ask them to see an e-mail from either John S., or DOK or myself - which would explain the reason that they are being banned from this site. These are sent after the three of us have discussed banning someone - and all of us agree that someone is to be banned.

My Best to you and all,

John D.

Wes, I have to be straight up with you. I can understand the mess up on the first thing, one of the hardest things I learned early on was that just because people are grown doesn't mean they stop acting like children, in fact they get worse cause they have no integrity and have more resources to be nasty.(That and staying out from under Humvees) BUT NOT HAVING BULLETS IN THE HOUSE! That's unamerican! I never thought you were capable of that! Thats..thats... alright. I'll say it and mosy likely make an enemy for life. Its like a Democrat.

RK

<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Roadkill,

Ouch!
I am to the right of conservative Republicans. The reason for no bullets is that I have shot them all up! Tomorrow, I stalk the wily and elusive paper bullseye with a 300 Win. mag. accompanied by the bush-beaters (my daughters).

ROADKILL <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Luke

My brother is a Democrat. So is his wife. They will not have a gun in the house. Many years ago my dad got us each a 12 ga H&R. I went to Vietnam, he went to college, majored in Politcal Science, is now a tech writer for a Defense contractor and has published many articles and written a book on the Murder of John Patterson. No Dummy. Few years ago a large German Shepard was causing him & family trouble out here in the back woods. It was a nasty tempered stray that was very aggressive, chewed up his poodle(what else?)and he called me for help. I said shoot the damn thing. No gun. Where is the 12 ga.? At Dad's, won't have it in the house. Too dangerous. And the dog's not? Got things turned around, don't you? I'll be there in a minute. Let's see, what do I want to use? Big dog, fast, houses around. Down comes my Mod 97 Winchester, 32" barrel, full choke. Five rounds of 00 buck, standard load. Drive over, the dog gets real nasty. First thing I do is try to run over it with my truck, it jumps on the door, I knock it down with a short base ball bat. I get out of truck, it growls at me, hope it died happy cause it was quick. Democrats won't have a gun around but sure don't mind calling someone else when they have a problem.

RK

This is the law:
. The purpose of fighting is to win.
. There is no possible victory in defense.
. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
. The final weapon is the brain.
. All else is supplemental.
- John Steinbeck

RK, that's a GREAT story! Your brother and his family will hopefully never have to deal with home invaders or bad people intent on taking what they have.

Wes,

Always keep at least one or two magazines full for your 1911 for unscheduled serious social events.

Shoot everything else if you want to and then buy more on the way home from the range (boy my closet is getting full).

Wes
I was wrong, sorry that I misled you. After reading John D. comments yesterday, I considered myself booted off. Even my thick hide has its limits. However, looking at the Forum this evening it appears that I have not actually been booted. There is some support from the membership for Brad and I remaining on the Forum. However, its all up to the owner (John D.). In any case, I am very supportive of a Luger collectors association.
Jan C. Still

Mr. Still:

With all due respect, you write good books and you say good things, but now you are starting to sound like a "whiner". There are already too many here. If you want to stick, IMHO, I would suggest that you check your backbone.

Best Regards and Good Hunting,

Garfield

Since when is John D. a benevolent dictator with the ultimate power of imminent banishment over the peasants? I've been out of line, (Surprise?), and have rec'd polite suggestions from forum members to quit being stupid, but have never had the perception that there is an ever present threat from John D. or anyone else of censure & banishment over anything. I've rec'd much more heat from forum members than the owners of the site. I've always viewed the forum administrators as Luger enthusiasts with the dedication to take the time and trouble to allow this forum to exist in spite of unnecessary problems caused by misguided miscreants such as myself and a specific thankfully few spiteful biased personally vindictive folks with a personal vendetta which I don't care about and don't wish to know. If there is a Damocles sword above my head hanging by a hair I wasn't aware of it. Let me hear a diesel engine start, I get nervous. That's something else.

RK

Garfield
You misread my post. I apologized to Wes for telling him that I had been booted, when in fact I had not (my mistake). As previously stated, I stand by all that I have posted on this forum without apologies.
Jan C. Still <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Just for the record, I'm a Democrat (at least I vote for more Democrats that Republicans), and I'm armed to the teeth! Maybe it has something to do with being a Texan?

Wes, Roadkill, Doubts, and Don
My home defense weapon is an old reliable S&W .41 Mag. Last night my daughter yelled that a bear is at the door. I grabbed my S&W (in case the bear tried to get in) ran to the door but the bear ran off.
Jan

The bears that we have are not quite as mean tempered as an Alaska grizzly (we have black bears). We have had a couple in the yard this year, but not at the door. They most usually are nosing around the racing pigeon loft. But just in case, I keep a S&W .44 mag for them to chew on should they come in the front door.

Talk about a coincidence. I had mentioned earlier that I am the recipient of a complete set of loading equipment, there is a set of .41 mag dies included. I studied them for a few minutes, I know nothing about this caliber, however if a person with your firearms experience deems it adequate for the use for which you have reserved, it must be substantial. Would you be so kind to inform?

Repectfully

RK

Roadkill
My firearms experience is limited to collecting, not shooting. However, I have had a little experience with the .41 and .44 mag.

The .41 Mag is slightly less powerful than the .44 Mag. Its more than adequate for black bear. I killed one that invaded camp with a single shot several years ago. Brown/grizzly bear can be difficult to kill even with a .375 H&H.

The work I do during the summer is often in brown/grizzly bear habitat and a rifle is impractical to carry, so I carry a .41 mag for brown bear protection. Its doubtful if a .41 mag would do an adequate job on a determined grizzly, but it makes you feel safer. It is of note that last Summer a young woman geologist, (whose training with a .44 mag included shooting from the hip) dropped a charging grizzly with a single hip shot from a .44 mag. It dropped 5 feet from her.
Jan

Reminds me of a question and answer article I read in a hunting magazine years ago. It seems that a gentleman was considering hunting grizzly bears with a .44 Magnum and asked for any suggestions as to make and model to purchase. The editor responded that most any brand would do equally as well, but the first thing to do after purchase was to file off the front sight - that way it wouldn't hurt as much when the bear shoved it up..... [img]eek.gif[/img]

Years ago I lived in a place where there was an understandably small fad for shooting bears with a small handgun. The idea was to more or less stick the gun down the bear's gullet. You were supposed to have a reliable back up man armed with heavy artillery, but even so, I was never tempted...

Just shooting a .44 magnum is impressive, the recoil will result in you wacking yourself on the head with the front sight if you aren't ready. Also, if its a SA and the grips have any checkering it will shred you hand like a cabbage shredder. And your hearing (if unprotected) will never be the same. However, for self defense in bear country it sure beats a table leg or piece of firewood if you can handle the gun. Obviously, a heavy rifle would be better for the job, but a rifle is a pain to put up with and keep handy if you are doing something besides hunting.

Learn to handle it and a .44 magnum is a wonderful piece.

Jan and RK, I happen to remember about the .44 and .41, although before my time. The .44 was essentially desinged by Keith and is a heck of a gun, was designed as a hunting cartridge. The .41 was designed as a police caliber, but never caught on. It was to replace the 357 as a man-stopper, but no dice to many Police Departments, who had tons of .38 to use and were used to them.

Anyway, both are excellent, but loading them hotter than hades is silly. They are plenty hot in factory / reloading specs!

Hi Guys, you were talking about .44 mag. Would a short barrel (1.5 inches) have adequate stopping power for self defence?. I have an American Derringer .44 Mag, and that is about the length of barrel left after you load it. It's not unpleasant to shoot. It sounds real powerful. I was just wondering if maybe I was losing a significant amount of energy even with medium loads. Thanks. G.W.

Recently, while driving accross our Island I was attacked in my Misubishi 4x4 by a huge wild Boar.
(we call them Captain Cooker's as they were originally released here by Capt Cook.)
We caught this critter with two dogs and a knife and boy! was he wild. He got his tusks into my back tire and dented the van but! not a .44 in sight, not even a Luger. They never seem to be there when you want one.
The Boar weighed 303 lbs "gutted". Tusks were around 8 inchs long. Hows that for a pig!
Murray
Great Barrier Island

Murray,

We want more details on how you got this pig with two dogs and a knife!

Jan,

Contrary to response you received by the member whose is called "Garfield", I am sure I am not alone on this forum when I say that it takes a heck of a backbone to admit to the world that you made a mistake...of any kind!

Although I must admit that philosphically I agree with John D. about most that has transpired here... I want you to publicly make you aware that I'm glad you are part of this forum... as I am sure that he is, and I extend the same warm welcome for you to remain here as I extended when you first posted...

I only request that you try to maintain your focus on a bigger picture instead of being being sidetracked on a just couple of issues...