Luger books and references recommendations?
 

I am sure that in the archives this topic has come up a bit, and I have looked back by search and found some helpful guidelines re: great Luger books and reference resources.

But darn it, there was one post I skimmed through a month back or so that mentioned a fairly recently released book I think, with the comment "this book updates all the books that came before on these time periods of Luger info" or something to that effect.

I did a few searches trying to find that post again but couldn't find it... So I'd like to pose this question to you knowledgeable folks, and as always I very much appreciate your helping me make my "newbie advancements" in familiarity:

Starting with the best for overall knowledge and fundamental important things to know type books, proceeding into "must have" books that might be more specific or cover just specific models / eras, what sequence of reference book purchasing would you recommend?

Like top 3 vital books maybe, followed by if you were going to have maybe 8 what would they be, whatever you think is important. I'm looking forward to finding them (I know some aren't common or even in current print) and learning from them! Thanks!

Frank H. in L.A.

Hi Frank, this is Frank!! It's tough to name three books, until you decide what your interests are!! For instance, if you are a Krieghoff Guy, then Gibson's Book "Kreighoff Parabellum" would be a must. Otherwise, it wouldn't be among my top three!!

Some pretty good starter books that cover the "General" category are:
1) Kenyon's "Lugers at Random"
2) Walter's "The Luger Book"
3) Costanzo's "World of Lugers"

Not necessarily in that order!!

I also like Jan Still's books for period Lugers:
1) "Imperial Lugers"
2) "Weimar Lugers"
3) "Third Reich Lugers"

Then, you could get some ancillary books, like:

1) Bender's "Luger Holsters and Accessories"
2) Goetz's "German Small Arms Markings"

That would be my recommendation, but I'm sure other members will chip in with their thoughts!!

Good Luck!!

There are several E-books by Gerard Henrotin ( who did the fabulous Luger animation on our opening page) that I recommend for newbies...

They are inexpensive, have some great educational illustrations, and downloadable for about $9 each. Just be sure you download them and install them on the computer you want to read them on, since once installed they are locked to that computer. Make sure you keep the unlock code in case your hard drive fails and you have to re-install the books.

You will find the link to these books on the homepage.

Thanks for the tips, Frank and John!

All personal preferences, suggestions and guidance are welcome, I've got a lot of catching up to do on these captivating pistols...

Frank H. in L.A.

Hi Frank H.,

Although quite out-dated, Fred A. Datig's book, "The Luger Pistol", is a good read to know what luger collecting was about in the late 1950's.

Good history of the gun's development and lots of great reading on the George Luger and family...

I think his work is what the other, subsequent authors built upon...in the more recent books.

p.s. Watch out for those luger books...they can be as addictive as the pistols themselves...last count my luger book library after only 3 years of luger interest, at last count, went over 63 books...I am hopeless... :( ...think I could have purchased 1-2 nice lugers with that money...but the books are useful and most enjoyable to read...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

FrankH,

The answer to your question is slippery, depending on the experience and interests of the person asking, and the same goes for whomever is recommending.

For anyone more serious than just buying a Luger to have, the first indispensible book is Kenyon's "Lugers At Random". First published in 1969 it is not the most up-to-date source, but it remains the most comprehensive catalog of the most varieties of Lugers and their characterisitcs. Its photographs are large, perfunctory, and of moderate reproduction quality, its real value is in its comprehensiveness and text information.

The best current general history of the Luger is John Walters's "The Luger Story", �©1995. Datig's 1955 (revised 1958) book is a sentimental favorite, but it requires careful and experienced reading to see just how much was -not- known about Lugers in those years, and how much of Datig's speculation has proved to be in error.

For an inexperienced but ambitious Luger buff I recommend Aaron Davis's "Luger Handbook". With one serious reservation. This pocket-sized booklet begins with an excellent Luger identification system. It is a great little resource to take to gun shows or Luger dealers to help one become familiar with the various Luger variations as they present themselves.

That having been said, anyone buying this book would be wise to rip out the pages following the identification section and throw them away. The book's text is full of factual errors, and the price guides are straight out of cloud-cuckoo-land.

Davis's book, and its usefulness, introduces something which does not seem to come up whenever the topic is Luger books. That is, the paper is adjunct to the steel. It is important to "read"--examine--as many Lugers as possible, in order that one has a frame of reference for the information in the books.

The next level of good Luger books is a broad spectrum of volumes which are more tightly focussed on specific topics. And here also I will diverge a bit from the "conventional wisdom" found in these Forums.

Most recommend that one read books and decide what special interests one has, and then buy Lugers along those interests. I suspect that most inexperienced Luger aficionados are fairly bewildered by the Luger variety, and do not begin to have the background to make such a decision. Rather, one might profitably consider what varieties of Luger one has little interest in, and then explore the others for the interest they might hold.

At this point an aspiring Luger collector might do well to buy both books and Lugers. At least one or two, examples which one can disassemble and examine with books at hand to act as practical study guides.

The next indispensible books are Jan Still's volumes on the major Luger eras. These books are full of details which answer many of the questions one automatically comes up with about one's Luger--where? when? how many? used by whom? The photographs in these books are noteworthy in their excellence. Buy the volumes which match the era of the Lugers you have, and also which meet the historic interests you may be developiing.

The truly specialized books will present themselves directly to your evolving interests--"The Dutch Luger", "The Navy Luger", "The Swiss Parabellum", "La Luger Artiglieria", "The Krieghoff Parabellum", and Bender's holster and accessories book, among others.

Pay attention to the Luger Forums. At some point you may find yourself wanting to answer other people's questions, as well as asking your own (or perhaps you want to start answering your more detailed questions yourself). This is an excellent method of learning about Lugers, the necessity to figure out answers and check your facts while doing so. This is when books such as "German Small Arms Markings", "The Imperial German Regimental Markings", John Walters's "The Luger Book" �©1986, and Costanzo's proof marks magnum opus become worthwhile purchases.

I have not read Henrotin's e-books, but as a researcher I find printed pages much more satisfying and useful.

I hope this commentary has some value for you. I have gone rather farther afield than perhaps your question intended, but these things have been on my mind and I appreciate your providing the opportunity to express them.

--Dwight

In my opinion, Dwight Gruber has written a really on target recommendation. I say that with a bit of irony because I was in the process of putting together a reply that is virtually a carbon copy of Dwight's posting. I agree with him right down the line on his recommendations, and would encourage the beginning collector to seriously consider his advice. Good job Dwight.

Almost nothing to add, but to mention
Joachim Goertz's German language book on the P08, efffectively titled 'Die Pistole 08'. The recent reprint is an excellent read and contains lots of archive material.

All in all, reference material associated with Goertz, Walter & Still are worthwile.

Gerben,

Do you know (or does anyone else reading this know) when--or if--the English translation of G�¶rtz's book is going to be available?

--Dwight

Major thanks, Dwight, and to each of you!

Frank H.

My thoughts follow what direction I actually took here.

Bought Lugers at Random first to see general information about variations. Then after determining what ERA you are most interested in begin buying Jan Still's excellent books on Lugers. Imperial Lugers for WWI, Weimar Lugers for period between WWI and WWII, and finally Third Reich Lugers for WWII.

Speciality Luger books like The ones on Krieghoffs and Swiss Lugers are needed if you branch out in those areas or are just interested in them.

The other book that I find really facinating and interesting is Costanzos World of Lugers-Proof markings. That one is very expensive ($200-$300) but very intriguing to me.

Hi,

The English version of Goertz his book is not available (yet). I heard Mr. Sturgess was working on a translation.

I was informed that Mr. Goertz died last year.

The old adage

"Knowledge is Power"

Is rarely more important than in collecting Lugers.

Buy any books on lugers, carefully study them, compare to what you own. Use this forum for questions and comments. The rewards are many.

Ronnie

So where can one get one of Costanzo's "World of Lugers" books?? I've checked IDSA and Amazon without results.

Appreciate any help, and you all know I need all the help I can get!!!

Ronnie :confused:

Ralph is listing one on his latest list...$350. ouch...I once get get all I wanted for $35.00 each years ago, but no not me, one is all I could read at a time!

Thanks Howard, guess I'd better go ahead and "bite the bullet", as they say. Much obliged for the lead Sir.

Ronnie

Ronnie,

Don't jump too quickly. Now that you know you want one keep your eye open on ebay and the like, it shows up on occasion and with a little patience you might be able to pick up one for $250-$300.

--Dwight

Hello Double, I'll sell you a copy of WOL for $300 plus US Mail . Best regards, Daniel

Daniel,
Please check your P/M's

Ronnie

To the best of my knowledge... there were only 500 copies of Sam Costanzo's "World of Lugers" ever printed... that is why they demand such a premium price...

The last copy sold on ebay went for well over $400.00...

I recently purchase the STANDARD CATALOG OF LUGER by Aarron Davis Pub. 2006. It gives identification and pricing (2006) for various models. I like it. Anyway it is not an expensive book.

I also have THE LUGER BOOK by John Walter Puib. 1991. It has lots or good reading information too on Borchard Lugers; 1885 to 1985.

Two excellent (though small) reference books I find very helpful:
1) 'The "Parabellum" Automatic Pistol'...Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken, Berlin
(English Edition).
2) 'Lugers Unlimited', by F. G. Tilton, MSgt., USAF., 1965.
The 'Parabellum' book, a translation from the German, is very old, but its beautifully-drawn illustrations and tables are incredible in their detail.
Don

Borchardt & Luger Pistols
 

As the publisher, I may be a little biased, but I believe this to be the best study of the Luger ever published:

What I am fascinated by is just how Lugers were made. Is there a reference that discusses the manufacturing? Having been a production machinist in the '70s I have some knowledge of metal working and as I consider the years these things were made I wonder. For instance, when were electric furnaces introduced? Which parts were cast? How? Cast from tapping a furnace where the steel was made or a furnace where steel was melted? Man, I can think of so many questions and I suspect, as usual, answers just lead to more questions.

The price of the steel for parts may not have been cheap but the value of those parts has to increase as time is spent working on them, so can you imagine a production line where parts are handed along to masters of their craft with increasing skill and as the years go by and skill increases the opportunities to master even more demanding skills...photos of these shops must have been made and might reveal details of "how it was done" that would be a lot of fun to discover.

I visited a furnace in PA once many years ago and the "guide" gave a talk on "How it was done" 200 years ago. The iron was made (obviously) in the furnace. When the guy in charge decided the time was right the furnace was tapped and the river of molten iron was channeled into runs like irrigation ditches to flow into wax formed parts that were buried in the sand. To describe it with words fails to convey the awe at the skill of the craftsmen who could do this that, for me, can only be really appreciated by seeing the site. Realize, you only get one shot at that moment which is the culmination of weeks of work. Were parts for Lugers cast in a similar fashion?

Wayne, if you have another comment, you can click on the little pencil icon and edit your own posting and add to it, rather than three comments, one after another a few minutes apart ;)

and the answer to question 1 - not really

There are bits and pieces in many books

I don't believe any of the parts in an original luger were "cast".
Casting may have been used in the 1970's by Mauser( I believe it was- just don't know for certain. US made lugers of the '70s definitley have some cast parts; and some modern replacement small parts are cast.

I'm with you, I'd really like a tour of the DWM or Erfurt or Mauser factory where these were made. I've seen very few pictures with any detail.:thumbup:

Don, on his website mauro states they have many glass plate photographs of the manufacturing process. So they DO exist. We MAY GET our "tour of the factory". These kinds of photos also show incredible detail.

It occurs to me that if these plates could be digitized and a volume created that "amateur investigators" could have access to (sort of "crowd sourced") and comments discussed it would be possible to assemble a sequence of photos with narratives that would demonstrate every small detail. It may only be of interest to a few but for those few absolutely thrilling.

When I was a machinist decades ago I just wasn't interested terribly in metallurgy or the history of metal working, it was just a paycheck. I had to learn some of it "for the test" but it just wasn't relevant. Now I am curious as can be. I just read that High Speed Steel wasn't even invented and introduced until 1910. How in the world did they makes these parts before that?

Proof Marks
 

Although costly, there are over 400 pages of every luger proof mark ever made!