Who's Going To Reno on 8-16 to 8-18 ?
 

Interested in knowing who will attend the Reno gun show at the Hilton Resort on 8-16-02 to 8-18-02...

Does anyone know which luger dealers normally attend ?

Thought it might be fun to meet some Forum members, in person...

<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Wm, I for one would love to attend, but the 1200 mile round trip is giving me second thoughts. Is anyone familiar with this show? Do any individual sellers show up or is it all dealers? I have not found a decent buy from any dealer at any gun show that I have attended. Possibly the oppprtunity to meet Kenyon or other authors to sign my books might persuade me to make the trip. Need input!

Hello Herb,

I know what you mean about that long drive across the state of Nevada...it really is bleak...

I drove from Indiana back to California after 9/11 and found the most boring part was through Nevada.

I coined NEVADA as an acronym for " Not Even Vegetation And Dead Animals"...I think that says it all...

Regarding the Hilton show; I have heard from two gun shops near my home that lots of shops/dealers attend but also a bunch of private guys renting a single table...

I understand Ralph Shattuck will bring the .45 carbine luger as well; so it might be worth the drive for a chance to see this "debatable" luger in person. Once it sells, I imagine this gun will be out-of-sight in a big time collector's home thereafter.

For me, it's only a 4 hour drive; so the chance to see this carbine is an easy decision.

Plus I have some dealers bringing along some HK's and a Dutch KOL for my consideration...

The Reno Hilton is booked 100%, but other hotels are still open... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Wm, Circus/Circus usually has affordable rooms, if I can make it I will probably be there. The wife will surely want to go on to Sacramento to visit the kids for a day or so, although I have no desire to ever see CA again. I would like to see Ralph and the Carbine. I wonder if Nancy will be with him, the wife enjoys her company. My best buy was from an individual seller, it was the Bulgarian commercial that you may have seen my posts on. Paid $350 for it in 84 and just the research, which is still continuing, has been worth more than that. The wife's birthday is this month, maybe I can intice her by offering a B'day travel gift?? I agree with your assesment of Nevada, I will travel Hwy 50, tagged 'the loneliest Highway in America'. There are places that are 150 miles between gas stations. One town, Austin, sells Chevron for over $2.00 a gallon for regular! Ain't no Armadillows to break up the boredom either! If excitement is your bag, don't even think about it. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Hello Herb,

I understand Nancy will accompany Ralph...

In CA-State, most gun shows are very small with very few handguns...so a chance to attend a 1,000+ table gun show cannot be passed up...IMHO

Wm, a few days ago I was perusing my copy of the BATF manual, State Laws and Published Ordinances. Don't quote me but if I recall correctly, Utah had about 3 and 3/4 pages of gun laws, mostly dealing with who can an cannot own a gun (juveniles, felons, etc, and where they can/cannot be carried.) Of interest is the section on the Kommissariat of Kalifornia, SIXTY FOUR (64) pages of laws!!! This state should be the victim of a catastrophic quake and slide into the Pacific. I have children there, but I feel they are intelligent enough to evacuate in time and come here to live.

Hi Pete,

I plan to go on Saturday and maybe early Sunday before heading back to San Francisco. Even if I see you I won't recognize you. Of course I could hold up one of those "Mr. Ebbink" placards like the Limo drivers use at the airport... [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

Jim,

Finding me will be quite easy...

I'll be the luger groupie, drooling all over Mr. Shattuck's .45 carbine...

Actually, if enough folks from the Forum reply they will attend and someone knows the layout of the place; we might want to pick a snack-bar to meet at on Sautrday at 12 noon...or we can all meet at the Shattuck's table at the fore-mentioned time...sort of like a "mini Luger Fest"...!!!

Meeting at Ralph's table at noon would be a good idea. In fact, I could make it a bit easier on you to ID me. I will wear my "Ben & Jerry's" t-shirt. It is a bright blue/green shirt with all the black & white cows on it ane "euphoria" on the back. I would be pretty easy to spot in that one! But if all else fails, let's meet at Ralph's table Saturday at high noon.

Pete
Here is what you posted concerning the .45 Luger carbine on 6/2/02 in the old Forum:

"Ralph said a major gun magazine will feature it in the next month or so on their cover and with a feature article. ...the magazine is not in the habit of showcasing "fakes" on the cover..."

Any update on the name of the magazine featuring the .45 luger carbine and what issue the article will be printed in.

I spoke to Mr. Charles Kenyon on August 4. He gave me permission to quote the following: "I am not going to Arizona to see the carbine I saw it at Kansas City". "I am not writing an article on that .45 carbine."
Jan

For what it is worth, to my knowledge, no major gun magazine has printed an article on the "45.cal Luger carbine". Has anyone seen such and article?

[quote]Originally posted by Jan C. Still:

I spoke to Mr. Charles Kenyon on August 4. He gave me permission to quote the following: "I am not going to Arizona to see the carbine I saw it at Kansas City". "I am not writing an article on that .45 carbine."
Jan[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Jan,

Are you at liberty to reveal what comments, if any, Mr. Kenyon may have made regarding his assessment of the carbine's legitimacy?

Mr Still

I find it interesting that Mr. Kenyon is not going to write an article on the .45 carbine, Did he say why he is not going to do one?

Also if I may ask, since you are a well known Author and authority on Lugers have you been asked to write an article on this gun?

Regards,
Mike Jones

Hello Jan and Garfield,

I do not want to steal Ralph's thunder and announce the magazine's name, until it comes out.

You both are certainly welcomed to call him in person and chat with him about the magazine article.

I did receive a nice "preview" copy of the cover photo from Ralph. It is already framed on my wall of my "luger room" (well, acutally a corner of my home office...).

[quote]Originally posted by Wm. Pete Ebbink:
<strong> It is already framed on my wall of my "luger room" (well, acutally a corner of my home office...).</strong><hr></blockquote>

I framed mine too! It Looks really good!

Brandon...

Pete:

I assume that you are talking about the "preview cover" bearing the Gun Report logo. I did "chat" with Ralph about the publication date in KC. As I recall, no publication date had been assigned. I can only assume that the answer to my question then is, no one has seen an article on the 45 luger carbine which has been published in a major gun magazine. This is an assumption based on facts available and not a conclusion.

Anyone interested in sharing a ride (and possibly a room) to the Reno show from southern Kalifornia please contact me at neveragain@juno.com and give me your phone number.

Hello Garfield,

When in KC with Ralph, did you see the .45 carbine ?

If yes, what are/were your impressions ?

I, do, accept, Private Messages; if you want to share your impressions off-line.

But on-Forum would allow all to consider your impressions of this "debatable" luger.

I think the more luger experts see this piece, the better... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Folks
Sorry, the remainder of my conversation with Mr. Kenyon was off the record.

Kenyon is the luger man for Gun Report. He is one of the most qualified to write an article concerning the .45 Luger carbine. If not him who.

Pete and Brandon, while you don't want to steal "Ralph's Thunder" and announce which magazine, how about telling the members of the Forum the author of the .45 carbine article. Or hasn't the author been selected?

Mike, I haven't been asked by the seller to either look at the carbine or write an article on it. There are certainly more qualified people than myself to evaluate that carbine. Some of these have already examined it at the Kansas City gun show. Perhaps Doug Smiths comment is the most telling "Its so bright that you need shades to look at it through the glass."

If the truth be known, there is a lot more of interest to me in Luger collecting than a questionable .45 Luger carbine. Long time non-Forum collectors are not paying that much attention. With all the obsequious drooling over that .45 carbine by some members of this Forum I feel obligated to raise honest questions to lend some balance to the discussion (For example, Pete Ebbink: "I'll be the luger groupie, drooling all over Mr. Shattuck's .45 carbine...").

Jan

If the .45 carbine is indeed in pristine condition, that would infer that its travels and change of ownership were very few. Long time possession would make the job of documenting its ownership much easier than a luger that changed hands many times.
If forensics is ever offered to the general public (and should even now be available) it would be ever more believable with the documented trail of ownership.
What is its history?

Your right Wes, pristine condition, would infer that very few people have owned or handled the gun. Perhaps just the person who made it and the person who is currently selling it???? Who knows how old it is ????

edgedealer:

A very astute observation!

Pete:

Yes, I saw "IT".

Thank you for the offer to share, however, I don't think that I want to go there. You and the bunch will be meeting at Ralph's table at Reno, where, independent of any outside influence, you can make your own determination as to the authenticity of this "debateable" luger. Were I to make comment now, conceivably, your ability to make a totally independant evaluation might be impaired. That would not be fair to you or other interested members of this forum.

Have a great show.

Jan,
Charlie isn't the only "Luger Man" for Gun Report!
In the January 2001 issue of Gun Report (An issue I would not have had if Mr. Charles Kenyon hadn't so Kindly gave me two years of Gun Report back issues) a article by a Mr. Finn Nielson on a "Drill Purposes Luger"! So the impending .45 Carbine article could be wrote by somone other than Charles Kenyon Jr.

Also I have no idea of how you took my post....???
I was just making a comment that I framed the "sample cover" that Ralph so kindly sent to me!

As for Pete, He was just trying to be respectful! He knew that maybe Ralph didn't want the name of the publication revealed! He clearly cares about the feelings of others! If the whole world had half of the respect for others, that Pete Ebbink has, The world would be a much better place to live in!

I was at Kansas City and, I saw the .45 Carbine! It was very bright and appeared to have been well taken care of! Jan if you would like to see the .45 carbine but haven't been invited to Phoenix, Why don't you just go to a gun-show that Ralph will be at? The last I heard, gun-shows were open to the public! If you actually saw the Carbine you might change your opinion of it, and just might do a little drooling yourself!

With All Due Respect!
Brandon...

Brandon:

Although you appear to be a very dedicated lad, and, no doubt, clever, too, again you have missed the point. It is not Mr. Still's mission in life to travel to AZ to inspect this 45 caliber luger carbine. Nor should he be expected to travel to some distant gun show to view it. After all, Mr. Still is not the one attempting to sell the piece for 1M.

You have accepted the authenticity of this pistol from the moment that it's existence was made known without having seen it. Mr Still, who has a few years on you both in age and collecting experience, has doubts about it's authenticity, also without having seen it. I'm going to have to put my money on Still.

By the way, Jan Still cares about others, too. He doesn't like to see luger collectors being taken advantage of.

I know that I am going to get flak about picking on a kid, however, Brandon, if you want to run with the big dogs you got to take your licks.

Good Hunting,

Well All,

I think I started this post with a simple attempt to give some of us a chance to meet "socially" at the the up-coming Reno gun show.

I think we will have a small group of Forum folks meeting on Saturday, 8-17-02 near the Shattuck table at noon.

Herb, Jim, and Dr. Fisher and me; I think that is our head count for now...Looking forward to meeting all Forum folks who can join us !!!

p.s. Does anyone know what the Reno gun show sponsors say about using cameras during the show ? Are they allowed ?

Hello Brandon,
I agree with Garfield, your enthusiasm and your interest in the Luger pistol is quite refreshing.There are not enough younger collectors in our field. I know my 6 year old is quite interested in guns and knives, the same way I was when I was growing up. I have been in this business of buying and selling firearms and edged weapons my entire life.
Through observing and listening to many collectors over the years, as well as handling thousands of guns, you retain information. You also learn about people in general.
I am glad you got to see the carbine, I do not doubt it looks good, probably a fancy display case too.There are many of us in the business who do not need to see this gun to make up our minds.The amount of questions I,and others, would have concerning this gun would not be answered.
I am afraid the answers would become a fiction story. I have been told that the story of how the gun surfaced has changed??
On a personal note to you, Keep up your enthusiasm, you could not have picked a finer gun to appreciate.

[quote]I know that I am going to get flak about picking on a kid, however, Brandon, if you want to run with the big dogs you got to take your licks.<hr></blockquote>

I don't know why you think you are going to get flak. Your posts pretty well describe your attitude!!

Hi Frank,
I know Garfield very well and share tables with him at the Kansas City show twice a year. We visit on the phone regularly and I can assure you that he gives flak to EVERYONE, but only if he likes you. He is arrogant, grumpy, grouchy, and just plain MEAN, but very knowledgeable. Just kidding! Actually he is a very good guy and one of my best buddies, and if you get to know him, you will appreciate him. Garfield, will be looking at the 1908 commercial military this weekend as the guy that got it will bring it up for me to verify. Will let you know the details.

[quote]Originally posted by Garfield:
[QB] It is not Mr. Still's mission in life to travel to AZ to inspect this 45 caliber luger carbine. Nor should he be expected to travel to some distant gun show to view it's contenence. [QB]<hr></blockquote>


Actually I don't think I've "missed the point"!
The point is, Jan is criticizing something before he's even saw it! That is a bad practice to be in! You could very well make yourself look like an idiot playing that game! Jan should either go see it and be able to base his criticism on something or just keep quiet IMHO!

With Respect always!
Brandon...

I lived in the Rebulik of Kalifornia back in "the good old days" of the late "60's. There used to be some great gun shows in the LA area. I especially remember the ones at the Disneyland Hotel. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> [img]frown.gif[/img]

Hey Hugh, trying to change the tone of the conversation???

People get worked up, me too, but I must say that several of the people that get me worked up, also bend over backwards trying to help out with a Luger question.

I've given up on the 45 Carbine question, I understand all the views, as a piece of shooting art, it is great, the history of it, I have no idea, but will always be anxious to see what others think!

Anyway to all those old grumpy men, young whipper snappers and such, keep up the light banter and all the great information about Lugers you help a lot with the day to go by!

[img]smile.gif[/img] thanks alot [img]smile.gif[/img]

Hey Bill,
Thanks for the description of your pal Garfield. It is appreciated. I never questioned Garfieldâ??s knowledge, just his MANNERS.

[quote]I know Garfield very well and share tables with him at the Kansas City show twice a year. We visit on the phone regularly and I can assure you that he gives flak to EVERYONE, but only if he likes you. He is arrogant, grumpy, grouchy, and just plain MEAN, but very knowledgeable. Just kidding!<hr></blockquote>

My motto is â??if you canâ??t take it donâ??t dish it outâ?�, so based on your words he must be really thick skinned. Iâ??ll be on the alert!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Brandon, I think its good that such a young Luger collector is posting on the Forum.

Below are two of your postings on the Forum prior to your seeing the .45 carbine at Kansas City on 07/27/02.
Brandon 05/29/02: "I stand behind Ralph 100%! I not only think the .45 carbine is real, but I would buy it in a heartbeat if I had the money!
These are my thoughts on the subject!"
Brandon 06/05/02:"You are all so jealous of Ralph you can't stand it ....... are all just a bunch of whining babies!!!!!!!!!!"

Your posting on the Form concerning the fact that Jan Still didn't travel to a gun show to see the .45 carbine.

Brandon 08/09/02: "The point is, Jan is criticizing something before he's even saw it! That is a bad practice to be in! You could very well make yourself look like an idiot playing that game! Jan should either go see it
and be able to base his criticism on something or just keep quiet IMHO!"


Brandon, I dont think that you intended to imply, that it is OK for supporters of the .45 carbine to pass judgement "100%" without seeing it? But, if others suggest honest critical questions it's a bad practice and they are in danger of looking like an idiot. You may want to modify your post.

Brandon are you speaking for yourself or are you speaking for the seller?

Jan
PS: Please read my posts. Trust what I say, not what others think I say.

Brandon,
There is much to teach you about this business. Someone like Jan Still, keep in mind he's written excellent books on these guns,can look at a photo and make a determination one way or the other. When you handle guns all the time you learn what to look for.The pics on the website are good enough to make that point. Your loyalty to "grandpa" is strong. But do not shout or throw stones at other authorities in the field who doubt what he is telling you. when you talk to him again, ask him who he considers experts in the field to determine the authenticity of the gun. I KNOW the whole forum would love to see his list of EXPERTS

Frank:

And one of my mottos is: "When in Rome......

Jan,
I think we all owe Ralph the benefit of the doubt!
Sure I beleve Ralph, but if he is PROVEN wrong, who am I to disagree?

To answer your question I am speaking for myself! Ralph has never told me what to or what not to say!

Jan, I have nothing against you or anyone on this forum! I have learned a LOT from your books and some of your posts! I have also learned that no one is always right! I just see things a little bit differently sometimes! If I'm wrong for this then I'm just wrong!

Kind Regards!... [img]smile.gif[/img]
Brandon...

Garfield,

I thought you were a little SE of Nome!!!

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Frank:

Curse me for a lout! Hit the wrong key! Meant to say, "When in Nome, do as the Nomads do.". Anyway, I am certain that you get the drift.

Garfield:

Or perhaps "When in Nome, do as the Gnomes do!!!"

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Awww, Garfield just go in and change your posting, that way it makes the sense you want it to. Of course the posts after it might look oddddd [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

After I make a post and if I see I screwed up, I will go in, edit it and that way maybe one or two people see I am an idiot instead of everyone. <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" /> {had to go in twice for this one, darn screwdrivers}