HOLY SMOKES...!!! (and I'm looking for parts)
 

In about 8 days - there are over 500 messages posted on this Board??!!! THIS IS TERRIFIC..!!! DOK - the site is going great and bursting at the seams under your care - my hats are off to you.... As well, all this activity is terrific - can't tell you how much I enjoy reading the tremendous volume of messages/knowledge posted to this Board.. It is a real asset to our "collective interests" (pun intended ...


I also posted the following ad in the Parts Wanted section of the Classifieds - but I'll post here as well - in hopes that either note catches someone's attention


Looking for the following - The "wire bail" that retains the Takedown lever (I have NO IDEA what this part is really called)...


A good WWI era wood base mag..


A GOOD set of either black plastic ("BW") grips or original Walnut Grips (not the repros where the top/front Left grip panel is rounded)..


A toggle pin stamped "15"...


Thanks to all..!!!

Re: HOLY SMOKES...!!! (and I'm looking for parts)
 

Believe it is called either a take down spring or locking bolt spring, check with Tom Heller, I bet he has them! He has had everything else I have asked for so far! Ted

Re: HOLY SMOKES...!!! (and I'm looking for parts)
 

I have heard people like Hugh can make them out of spring steel? Ted

Thanks Ted..!! Hey - Tom and or Hugh???
 

Do either of you two have that "do-hicky" that that Ted referred to as "take down spring or locking bolt spring"?? If so - please e-mail me or post back to this message...


Thanks Much!!! (oh - and thanks Ted Heh, heh, heh....

Re: Thanks Ted..!! Hey - Tom and or Hugh???
 

The parts listing under tech info, calls it a locking bolt spring not DER DOHICKY

Locking Bolt Spring
 

If Tom doesn't have them try:


Numerich @$3.50 + post

SARCO @ 4.95 + post

Popperts @ 7.50 + post

Thanks Hugh..!! I just popped off a note....
 

to Tom as well for a "DER DOHICKY THING-A-MA-BOB".. (That part name ought to drive Ted crazy, HUH???

well... in 20 days...
 

our web site took 4625 hits!!! That's in excess of 230 hits a day. Not bad....

Yea - but....
 

4603 of those 4625 hits are from Ted hitting "Refresh" on his browser..???!!!

Re: Yea - but....
 

you got me! Darn you guys are smart! I CAINT get by wit nuting

See what I mean????.. LOL!!!! (EOM)
 

A Serious question for Ted/Hugh...
 

Yea - I should start a new thread on this - but, well - I'm putting it here in this one...


Below - you mentioned "fire" blueing - I presume you are talking about heating parts to a certain temp and for a certain time?? I've never tried it - and I have a sideplate on a 42 BYF mis-match that the PO tried some "creative blue" fill-in with a BLACK PERMANENT magic marker (no, I'm really not kidding!).. It left it mottled on the high side.. Have either of you tried it on a pice as large as side-plate? If so, any trade secrets you'd like to share?

Re: A Serious question for Ted/Hugh...
 

Check out the grip screws on DA BABY! Nice pretty fire blue the way DWM used to do! HUGH IS GGGGOOOOOOOOOODDDDDD!!

I fire blued a reciever
 

A sideplate would be no problem!

Thanks Hugh - ummm (more)....
 

a side-plate would be "no problem" for who - you or me??!! All I have so far if that Ted likes your grip screws and you can do a whole reciever..


Any secrets to share - like "if it's a Dutch Luger sideplate - you have to use a Dutch Oven at 4XX degrees - bake slowly until tender..." Or any non-trade secret "hints" just to fan the flames our curiosity??.. OK - I'm begging here

Re: Thanks Hugh - ummm (more)....
 

OK, for you amateurs: Fire blue is attained somewhere around 550-575 degs, depending on the amount of carbon in the steel. Place the part in your oven and start out at 500, let it soak for 15-30 mins and check the color, then keep increasing the temp by 5 deg until you reach the desired color, waiting 15 mins between each increase in temp.

Hugh - thanks a million...!!!! (EOM)
 

Re: I fire blued a reciever
 

Fire bluing parts like a barrel? What does that do to the strength and is it a good idea on parts that are under intense pressure?

Re: I fire blued a reciever
 

Ted,I didn't say a bbl, just a reciever. Besides, that is not hot enough to effect the temper of the steel.

Hugh, do you mean the barrel extension or...
 

the grip frame when you say 'receiver' ? If you mean the grip frame, wouldn't that hot a treatment affect the hardness of the steel. My concern is for the shoulders on the grip frame that unlock the toggle. On the barrel extension or 'upper receiver' if you will, I think I would be most concerned about the strength around the toggle pin.


Comments?


-John

A lesson in metal tempering
 

John, I mean the reciever (bbl extension), the "handle part" is the frame. Carbon steel is annealed (removing hardness) at around 1000-1400 deg, depending on the amount of Carbon in the steel. This temperature is usually attained at a dark red or "cherry red" color. It is hardened by heating to 1500-2000 and "quenching", or cooling rapidly by dipping into some type of oil or brine water, depending on the type of steel. After hardening it is very brittle, and must be "drawn" to remove the brittleness. This is usually done by bringing the piece up to a lower temp slowly and letting air cool slowly. The drawing temp can be anywhere from 300 to 800 degerees. If you are making a spring for instance, the drawing temp is around 800 deg. For other parts such as Luger small parts, it is a lower temp (which gives the "strawed parts" their distinctive color). The "fire blue" color is attained at a temp of around 550-600 deg. For a part that has already been tempered and drawn, reheating to this temperature will not effect the hardness or toughness of the metal because this was probably close to the "drawing" temperature anyway.

Addendum
 

Some Luger small parts are "fire blued" rather than "strawed" because they were drawn at a higher temp. The toggle pins and trigger bar spring are two that come to mind. If this temp/color would effect the hardness of the steel, they surely wouldn't have heated the toggle pins to this temp.

Great lesson Hugh...This info would be good for FAQ! (EOM)
 

Re: Great lesson Hugh...This info would be good for FAQ!
 

Extractor, toggle & receiver connecting pin and grip screws are heat treated blue according to the DWM and early Mauser tables. I always thought that this is what we call annealed. Patrick

Re: Heat Treating-Patrick
 

You are correct, "annealing" and "drawing" are the same thing. It is the process whereby the "hardness" of the piece is retained, but the "brittleness" is reduced.

Re: Re: Heat Treating-Patrick
 

I hate to enter anothers correspondence but in this case I must clarify an error in statement. annealing removes all heattreatment leaving the material in its softest and weakest state. and iusually used after welding snd some machining processes to allow the material to be relieved of unwanted internal stresses.

Drawing is the final step in controlling the Hardness and ductility of a material and usually follows heating and quenching the material to its hardest and most brittle state.

the higher the Drawing temprature the less brittle the material becomes. also the weaker the material becomes.

and if carried to the extreme the metal is annealed and soft

Misunderstanding these things have resulted in failure of firearm parts with pain suffering and even death.

viggogdereng@aol.com

Re: HOLY SMOKES...!!! (and I'm looking for parts)
 

John D, I do have all of the PO8 parts that you requested including the #15 Main axel. Suggest that you email me for details. Tom

Thanks Tom..!!
 

You should see an email from me sent a day or too ago..?? I'll send another in a moment - my e-mail address is:


johnd@rennlist.com


Thanks again!!!