P.08 as a home defense weapon ?
 

Howdy ya'll ! I used to post on your forum as "gewher guy". I have a 1939 Soviet-capture P.08 I'm going to be using as a home defense weapon - anyone have any thoughts on ammo ?

Cecil,
Personnally, I like to use Winchester 115 Gr. Metal Point. It's fairly inexpensive. For home protection I just cannot seem to get away from my Mossberg 9-shot loaded with 00-0B buckshot though!! My AK-47 works well but I miss a lot with it! <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

I agree with Toggletop, I got me one of them Mossbergs with 00"s to! But in my other "home defense" guns, I got handloaded hollowpoints in the M1 Carbine in one room, Winchester softpoints in the Mini-14 in another room, Remington Golden Sabers in my Browning HP in another room, Winchester Silver Tips in my 45 Commander in another room, and Winchester Black Talons in my Officers Mdl 45 in my truck. No Sir! I ain't paranoid!
<img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />

For a home defense Luger, I would opt for Black Talon, Golden Saber, or Hydra Shock if it will shoot them reliably. [img]cool.gif[/img]

Yup, those shotguns are your best bet. But I keep a 45 ACP revolver by the side of the bed loaded with hydroshocks. I would grab a Luger if I had too, but I believe they should fall down and quit fighting back and the 9 mm isn't always known to do that.

Ed

Hugh,
Don't forget about the room where you are the most vulnerable and the most likely to get caught with your pants down.

Hugh, I think he means the Library.

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Johnny,

That's where the Browning HP is! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Luke, That's where the S&W 357 Mag I forgot to mention is! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Politically incorrect in my country also.
We are supposed to talk these buddies to surrender.
Other than that, the Rem 870 Marine would do a good job, IMHO.
Juergen

A little off topic here but I believe canada is well on it's way to do just those 4 things. Hard to believe that I soon may not be able to go hunting with his old man. The government here just passed off the responsibility to a private company, which has access to many of my most personal information. Criminal record; doesnt matter how minor; which prescription drugs I take
and a lot of other things which I think is an invasion of my privacy. I wonder how many criminals in canada will have registered their weapons? I could rant on but it just makes me angrier. Sorry to post it here but do not let them get away with one bit of the crap they pulled here. If I thought this program would make it safer for police and civilians alike, I would be all for it. Thanks for letting me vent! <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Hi Hermit,

I'm Canadian too and I do beleive that C68 ( Gun Control Law of 1998 ) is a failure....it's my opinion as a CFC Certified Verifier, a Law Enforcement Officer, a firearms collector and a hunter....

And you're right on that one: Criminals dont registrer guns....last week at work we arrested 3 car thieves and one of them had a nice North American Arms 22 cal mini gun in his pockets: loaded with Federal hp's and sure enough NOT REGISTERED.....

C68 has made it though for us collectors....4 inch LUGERS are now Prohibited weapons and cannot get their way in Canada....Very sad for us....


Now for that home defense stuff: Glock 19 w/ night sights loaded with an alternate selection of Glaser Safety Slugs/ Federal +P+ 115gr JHP's.....backup being a 12GA. pump w/ 000B tactical...

kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

[quote]Originally posted by ichabod:
<strong>Howdy ya'll ! I used to post on your forum as "gewher guy". I have a 1939 Soviet-capture P.08 I'm going to be using as a home defense weapon - anyone have any thoughts on ammo ?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I would personally want a hollow point or soft nose bullet. My 1927 Argentine .45 ACP is loaded with Winchester Black Talons. Elsewhere in the house I have a Chinese Model 213 Tokarev in 9mm but have been thinking of using the .38 Super conversion kit I have. The chambers of both pistols are empty because I have a 4 year old granddaughter in the house. While she is already trained to never touch a gun for any reason, she can't work a slide because she doesn't have the strength... yet.

The first consideration for your choice of ammunition is reliability. Be absolutely certain that your ammo will function with 100% reliability in your Luger. That's a tall order for a Luger when hollow points or soft nose bullets are involved. If you find such a load, my advice (opinion) is to leave the chamber empty purely for safety considerations. I don't think of the Luger as the best choice for a home defense pistol and if any of the above conditions can't be met, I'd seriously think of getting another gun for the purpose. Just my $.02

My DWM Luger is my weapon of personal home defense by default. I live in a pretty densely populated living complex, so I am not going to fire one of K98 rifles with its FMJ rounds. The bullet would not stop till after it had gone through about two other units. And as far as anyone every having to use a handgun in home defense against some kind of quasi-mysterious stranger, here are the facts: According to the FBI, if you are a typical law-abiding adult white male in America, your chances of being randomly murdered by a complete “stranger” are extremely slim. You are much more likely to be assaulted and murdered by: a family member (including a spouse or ex-spouse), a co-worker, or a current or former “friend”. Very sobering.

Tacfoley, that's a very good summation of conditions in the majority of the UK. I held a British Firearm's License for a few years. I was authorized three handguns; a .22, a .38/.357 and a 9mm. My choices were a Colt Match Target Woodsman, a S&W 586 and a commercial CZ-75 with a deep, rich blue finish. This was before the CZ-75 could legally be imported for sale into the US. I later traded the Colt in for an Erma ESP-85. All three handguns are still in my possession. I also, of course, had a shotgun permit.

To illustrate how differently the British viewed certain things, they expected a gun to be invisable to the public. I bought the Colt in London's Elephant & Castle station district. I put it in my briefcase and took the tube back to the train station where I caught the next train to Ipswich and then drove home.

Silencers (suppressors) are completely legal.

For reloaders, or home loaders as it was called there, the trick was to keep your assembled ammunition equal to or below your authorized limit. Have all the components you wished and as long as they were not assembled into a round, you were legal. I loaded for .38/.357, 9mm and two shotgun gauges. As I shot competitively for the Suffolk County Pistol Team, I reloaded and shot a lot.

It was an experience of a lifetime and I met many outstanding individuals while there, including past Olympic competitors and those with an excellent chance of making the next team.

Well, heck ! Maybe I'll just take my remaining five rounds of S&B .30 Mauser and press my bolo broom into guard duty. It's blue has been replaced by gray but it's got a new bore (ala Redman) and all the springs have been replaced. Plus it's so damn ugly it's bound to scare off a few burglars <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> [img]biggrin.gif[/img] !

Just another quick vent; I am glad to see that Kiddvett agrees with our new regs being a failure. Home defense here now would be a very touchy subject. How long would it take to get my 870 out of the gun safe and then unlock the seperately stored ammo? I also think there will soon be a lot more brazen criminal break ins if they know the people inside have no protection. We did have a fair law in place all ready with the FAC, but for some reason that was never monitored to my knowledge. The new regs have cost us millions and milions of dollars. I hope they come around soon as I dearly love all firearms and related sports but it is getting very hard to put up with the nonsense. Sorry guys; I'll stop this time! [img]redface.gif[/img]

It is my understanding that violent crime and burglary has drastically increased in Britain since the laws went into effect.

[quote]Originally posted by tacfoley:
<strong>Yo Doubs - I bet you bought the gun from Tom Collins, hey? Betcha glad you're in the USA , too......
tacfoley <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

You're absolutely correct.... Tom Collins it was. A rather odd bird. I called before making the trip and he assured me he had what I was looking for. When I arrived, he couldn't find the MT Woodsman so he asked if I'd come back in an hour or two. I said I would and left. When I returned he said "I've got it here somewhere" and then took another 20 minutes trying to remember where he'd put it!!

Someone once told me that he blew himself out of his shop into the street with black powder one day but that is only hearsay. I believe his nephew was a TV star in a cop series. I remember the show but not the name of it.

I have great memories of my stay in England. I used to love going to the Richardson Brother's shop in Halesworth to look at their shotguns. Very nice Blokes they were and excellent gunsmiths.

Take care,
Doubs

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

I keep a 12 ga 20" double barrel stagecoach rabbit ear in the bedroom, a 12 ga Win. Mod 97 in the living room, a 12 ga Win Mod 12 in the den, and a 12 ga Rogers double barrel hanging in the hall. All with 00, all but one out of sight. But my best home defense is my ugly dog Buster, my mentally challenged hound dog Axel, and a very intelligent German Shepard stray mix named Girl Dog (she's a girl). I fenced in about four acres surrounding the house, they don't let anyone who doesn't belong around. Buster looks like a cut down bear, Axel is so dumb he isn't afraid of anything, and Girl Dog is just flat out intimidating when she gets fired up. Two pumps, two double barrels, all 12 ga, and three dogs. We sleep well.

RK
<img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" />

Roadkill,

And I thought I was paranoid! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

ichabod, if you live alone (not other innocents in the house to worry about) use winchester Silver tips or Remington Golden sabers, those expand better than most 9mm Hollow points. If you have others in the house, use Glaser Safety Slugs and check for function (expensive) but devastating and low penetration beyound the first impact mass. I prefer a 45 in the house, I use Federal 230 Hydra Shocks and do believe the muzzle blast of a round going off with out a sonic boom (slower than 1150 fps) is way better than a 357 going off inside at 1425. I think I shoot better if I can see and the muzzle blast didnt blind me or make me deaf. I do believe the 115 silver tips would be my going away favorite (if all I had was a 9mm)as they are very soft and have a lot of shock for a small bullet.

The horriffic stories you Brits relate are very worrisome, especially to we who live in the PRK who can now clearly see the handwriting on the wall. As my wife is an Edgeware girl, we do occasionally visit the UK. I remember one day at her cousin's home four policemen appeared and demanded his shotgun, as his permit had expired the previous day! However, the worst experience was when we were leaving England and our carry on baggage was being inspected. I was using one of my shooting bags for travel, and they discovered an empty Colt .45 magazine I had overlooked. You would have thought they found a bomb! I was charged with having part of a "destructive device" and what I went through was something I would like to forget.

Tacfoley, the incident (one of many) I clearly remember involved the Metro Police. They were searching a flat for a suspect. An officer with a revolver in hand placed his hand on a bed and bent down to look under the bed. His gun went off and killed a sleeping 5 year old child. While I've never heard the outcome of the investigation, I've always suspected that the officer's revolver was cocked when he laid his hand on the bed. Unconciously squeezing through the double action simply doesn't wash in my mind.

Aaron, when I departed England through Heathrow, my three handguns were locked inside a 20mm ammo can that I'd had very heavy chain-link hasps welded to and secured by heavy-duty locks with long shackles. I arrived at Heathrow at 0800 and my flight wasn't until 1400 so I requested that my hold baggage be processed. I was told I had to wait until two hours before flight time. I explained the contents of the locked ammo can and the attention was immediate! They quickly found a Custom's agent to check my paperwork (but didn't look inside the can) and secure the guns until flight time. They processed my others bags as well. When I landed at Dulles, the US Customs agents took the Forms 6 that I offered, stamped them, and sent me on my way without so much as a peek inside the can.... which came out of the baggage chute with the other baggage.

I generally feel confident having a loaded P-08 nearby when appropriate but when in an area with a population of grizzlies ( whether fishing or sleeping or counting my money ) I'd prefer a 12 ga with slugs...Odie

To the fellows who have their weapons acessible in their home--do you not worry about a child or scared wife accidentally shooting themselves or someone else at the height of a scare? I also have a 9 year old son who is trained since he could talk about guns and hunting, but there is still the off chance that a friend may talk him into looking at the piece or the wife being alone and hearing you stagger in late after some good drinks and shooting an innocent person? It seems to me that this is the type of weapon ownership that the anti gun nuts are attacking; and, they use that as ammo to get these crazy laws passed. Even before these new laws came into effect here I always had a trigger lock on all my guns for that "what if?" situation. I realise that I may make some enemies with this post, but for God's sake be careful. In Canada, if the police were to come to your home for any reason and seen a loaded weapon in each room, you would probably be cuffed and your guns taken indefinitely. I would hate to see this stuff happen in the last country with fair gun laws. Just food for thought and hope I don't offend anybody. Rob <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Our consitution says "infringe". The fringe is the outer edge. The laws cannot even nibble at the most extreme outer edge of our right to bear arms.
Most politicians ignore the word.

You can't deny that a large percentage of your population would love to "infringe" on your rights. In a democracy, the larger percentage of a view wins. That seems to be what happened here, where the largest populations are in cities, and have probably never seen a gun much less fired one. As one of our city folk " Wendy Coulkier" said "she would not rest until all guns are held by the police and military". All I am saying is to stick together as a responsible group and do not give the people who want to change the laws statistics to prove they are right. you can see how much our government trusts it's constituency by going to any large protest march where they now have armed snipers on rooftops. That helps them keep an eye on our "right to gather" Way off the sites topic now I guess

Hermit,

It is a fact that gun accidents in the U.S. go down every year in spite of what the media implies. Our politicians (at least the more responsible ones) know this and we remind them often. Nevertheless, many states mandate gun storage rules when there is a danger of unauthorized access by children.

In addition, it is becoming more well known that firearms are used successfully to ward off attacks many more times than they are involved in accidents.

Finally, legislation has now passed in 32 of our 50 states to permit concealed carry permits (on demand) for qualified citizens. Applicants must have a clean background and undergo safety training and testing for the permits. Obviously, at least some of our politicians trust their citizens.

Also, we remember how defenseless England was at the beginning of WWII and how they asked U.S. sportsmen to send firearms for their homeland defense (most of which were destroyed rather than returned after the war).

I believe the U.S. guys are very responsible people who are careful about access to their guns by children, incompetents, etc. although they are a little paranoid about home defense and like to talk a lot.