Poll: Ban of "automatic handguns ?"
 

Looks like the folks down under need help
www.ninemsn.com.au. and here http://au.news.yahoo.com/poll
Juergen

Yep, it's the annual media circus on the gun control topic down here again. Some clown went into a major university in Melbourne and shot up a couple of his class mates before being overpowered by the lecturer and some students.
Of course the media, rubbing their hands with glee for a juicy story like like this, go all out to give all legitimate firearms owners a good kicking. All of the most rabid anti-gunners on the planet are then dragged on to television to espouse the benefits of banning "semi-automatic hanguns" as they call them. And thus public opinion is formed, with most shooters sitting back with a stunned look on their faces as to how this all happened and not knowing how to fight it. It's a bloody sad state of affairs and very, very diffclt to do anything about as unlike you guys in the US we do not have a constitution that enshrines our rights, we have to show reason and explain our motives to others as to why we want to own these things. Kind of like "You are a potential killer, guns kill, prove to me that you will never shoot anybody with that thing".
The media call it "The gun debate" but unfortunately I see no indications of any sort of "debate" going on at all, it's just pure and simple brainwashing.
[img]mad.gif[/img]
Ken

Sad to say, it is not so much different here in the US. Unfortunately, the liberal politicians, judges, media, et nauseum, say the constitution means what they say it means and not as it reads, so our much beloved second amendment is honored more in the breach than in the observation.

Of course we now have a mad man running loose on the eastern seabord so the anti-gun crowd has, true to form, trotted out their pre-canned propaganda. The cable news offers endless coverage (read baloney) and today I read a large non-factual article on ballistics in USA Today.

And so it goes...

Gun control is not about guns.

Unspellable has pretty much hit the nail on the head. The anti-gun idiots wasted no time in trying to make the sniper killings a gun-control issue. Sadly, Fox News today is running a piece on the lethal qualities of the .223 cartridge using milk jugs filled with liquid and pumpkins to show how violently the bullet expands and the damage it does. Pure sensationalism.

The hue and cry from the anti-gunners at the moment is to do a "ballistic fingerprint" on every gun manufactured or sold in the US. Millions upon millions of dollars will be wasted on a system that can be defeated for a few cents and little effort. Fox News did have a ballistics expert on who stated that very fact but I'm certain that the politicians and anti-gunners have their ears closed to any sort of reason. Thank God the Clinton administration is not still in office.

There a live forum going on at this address http://www2b.abc.net.au/news/forum/newsonline7/
I just can't believe the ignorance, mis-information and outright arrogance of some of the anti-gun crowds comments. What are these people so hostile about? It's not as though any of this affects them in any way. I mean, waaaay more people are killed and maimed in automobile accidents but nobody says a word about it. It's just beyond me.
Ahhhh yes.....methinks it's all about control and who has it. They think that the guys with the guns have the "real" power and they just don't like it....
<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

I saw that today about the 223, what a crock, a 270 Winchester would do a lot more damage as would most 3000 fps deer rifls. Image the show that could demonstrated with my 340 wby with about 3-4 times the muzzle engergy, A 210 gr bullet (with the front partition letting go) at 3200 fps popping a pumpkin. The 223 was being compared to a 22 LR on the show, what a comparision. Well, they always gotta get us somehow. I am just glad the shooter didnt use a real caliber like a .308 and take 300 yd shoots through windows at people, man that would be really worse. Sad to say all scoped deer rifles have been sniper rifles so we must keep them in deer hunter hands. Sorry for the soapbox. <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" /> This stuff is just the beginning after the smoke clears and they catch this person, the gungrabbers will be in full force.

Hi folks, from down under
Just letting everyone know, it has been announced this afternoon, in Canberra, that Australia is going down the British path regarding handgun ownership. Within, I would say six months, the private ownership of handguns (except airguns held at a club)will be banned.
Some older message board members may remember the Australian marked Artillery I posted a question about last March. Within six months this fine out warhorse, and a bloody heap more just like it will be on heir way to Valhalla. Crushed, burnt, melted down and offered up on the altar of bigotry, hate, fear and the anti-gun lobbies lies.
I feel like getting drunk!

Should the worst come to the worst in AU then is there any point in trying to get organised to export any Lugers, (and similar), to the US before they're destroyed ? Probably be worth more that way than the government price and will be saved for posterity.

To paraphrase Lady Liberty: Send us your weary, tired, outlawed handguns. Tom H.

In response to Stu and Lugerdoc
Going on our last "buy-back" in 96-7 the answer will be no way! Some top of the line IPSC "race-guns" might get out, but I'm afraid the vast majority will be destroyed. At that buyback(that's Howard-speak for "I'm taking your guns an there's nothing you can do about it" or in other words legislated theft). A gun had to have a buy-back price of more than AU$3,000 before it could be exported. You had to sent the gun to a overseas dealer for sale on consignment and if the gun had not sold within a certain time it had to be returned to Aus for destruction!
Please note I do not refer to the guns true value, but what the Aus Government decided they were prepared to pay for it. For example in early 96, prior to the Port Arthur shootings, a Valmet "Hunter" .308 self loader would cost your about AU$2,500 to 3,200, buy-back price was AU$900!
I don't think any legally owned Luger, or any other classic pistol will get out! This decison will mean the destruction of literally thousands of Lugers, C96 Mausers, Webleys, Colts, you name it, were probably looking at 100,000+ individual firearms.
Don't just fear a government that wants your guns, hate them with a passion!

Are there any Forum members that don't belong to the NRA?

Christmas is coming up, buy memberships for your relatives, Boys and Girls!

Get them interested in the collecting aspect of guns.

Talk to them, your grand-daughter is as much a possible voter as your grandson.

<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

Yes Ed, there are such members.
I'm member of the German organization "Forum Waffenrecht" www.fwr.de/
Nothing to compare with the NRA, we're only approx. 27,000. Unbelievable in a country having approx. 1.6 million legal gun owners and a reelected governtment of Reddish and Vegetable Taliban!
We just had the new law on (fire)arms officially announced last week. Most all becomes effective on 1st April of 2003 (what a day for fools); pump action shotguns having a pistol grip only instead of a stock are illegal as of last week. Lots of restrictions on buying, heirship, and so on.
Folks here still don't wake up.
Juergen

I was gonna say something meaningful and informative on the subject-----and forgot what I was gonna say. It seems to me that a lot of people are more than willing to let the police or govt run every aspect of their lives to make them feel safe. I feel for the victims of this latest sniper thing in the states, but it wasn't the guns' fault.

I thought Communism was finished!!! sound like its rearing its ugly head again!!

Dont loose hope!!! for years here in Michigan we had some of the thoughest and most oppresive hand gun laws in the states.

Last year we repealed and reformed the CCW law (Concealed Carry Weapons)Through much hard work and effort and electing the right law makers to office, we were able to change things and make this a "right to carry state".

I tell you what. Nothing makes you feel safer than to have your Walther P1 under your coat when you have to drive in downtown Detroit.

No amount of police or goverment protection can equal that.

Those anti-gunners can kiss my BUTT!!!

Beamersquared

I've alway heard, if you want someone to get to your house in a half hour or less, don't call the police, call Dominos.

Rather call 08-1911-357.
Faster than the Pizza service.
BTW: There's a sticker on the door of
my arms room showing a P08 and
"Wirst Du nachts hier angetroffen,
wirst Du morgens hier aufgefunden".
(If you're met here by night you'll
be found here in the morning).
Shall I get some on the next show
and send a bunch over ?
Juergen

Jeurgen,

That Sticker sounds great! Just scan the sticker and post in here on the forum... we can print them ourselves!

[img]biggrin.gif[/img] <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

Aw please, post the sticker. I'd like to have copies of it for some people I know. Along with that goes the other immortal phrase....Guns Don't Kill People, People Kill People.

Issue: The darn door is too big for the scanner.
Will try to get another one and post it here.
Juergen

Mmmm..duct tape...about taping the scanner to the door!! <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

How about just taking a digital photo of the sticker and then posting that [img]smile.gif[/img] Seems easier than either of the previously suggested solutions...

JuergenG
Apparently everyone else here understands perfectly what is meant by "Reddish and Vegetable Taliban".


"The God who makes iron grow has no love of slaves" E.M.Arndt

JuergenG,
I am greatly impressed at how well Europeans speak and write English. Your writings are good. We have a apar woman staying with us from Hamburg and she speaks as well as you write. But she is a no nonsense type of woman and does not have your humor. Keep writing, good buddy. Its good to hear from our gun brothers in other parts of the world.
Big Norm <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Content deleted by Site Admin...JS

Big Norm,
I realize that I'm getting pretty sarcastic lately. That applies to both business and folks talking about restrictions/bans on firearms mostly not having any clue, ignoring FACTS which are in favour of law abiding legal gun owners.
Media over here gave us a real hard time after the shooting in the Erfurt school, heavily supported by the tree hugging community. That has led to further restrictions but it didn't come to the worst. As this government has just gotten re-elected we are in expectation of more to come.

In case anyone in the community feels that I'm using a too strong language let me know and I'll try to behave.
Juergen

Jimbo,

I believe that we need a response from you here...

Hi tacfoley,

I want to beg your forgiveness with my thoughtless remark about the British.
Stupid rempark and poorly done, I intended to endear myself with the Australian posters as America and Australia were both the children of Great Britian. Instead, I alienated the English.

Please don't leave the forum, tacfoley! You have made interesting contributions in the past and I hope I have not gotten on your blacklist with my stupid remark. Don't leave!

My callous comment came as much from the frustration of seeing the effect of gun control on the British.

The British who dominated the high seas for 100 years? The British who spawed a hundred colonies across the globe in the largest (physically) empire the world has ever seen.

The same British who stood up to Hitler, completely alone, and single-handedly thwarted the complete domination of Europe? (I can hardly imagine Hitler inheriting the British Navy or America losing a staging ground for the invasion of Europe.) The British who's system of government and citizens, I gratefully note, are responsible for the very birth and ascension of America.

The British people, like the Americans, have always been so independent and gutsy it is hard to watch the disarming in progress. It is hard to know that it is a precursor to what will happen here in time. It is hard to imagine the British people handing over their guns because their government says to, rather than hiding the guns as a check against tyranny.

Tacfoley, I have nothing but respect for Britain and her people. England has always been America's foremost ally in cooperation and in capability. I would love to visit (if I haven't been banned from the island!)

My banal remark came only from the frustration of hearing of the increasing crime rates and knowing this comes from the English governments imposing gun-control on the honest people.

I put my foot in my mouth and at this point I want to apologize sincerely to someone who is certainly twice the man I will ever be and beg your forgiveness because I sure didn't mean to hurt your feelings, or to insult you or to insult any of the Britsh people of whom I am fond.

I'm sorry, Major. I hope you'll say you forgive me.

I'd like to futher apologize to the moderators and members of the forum for upsetting another person and possibly causing them to leave the Forum. My words were flippant. Their effect real. I was stupid. It won't happen again. Not even in jest.

This is a great on-line community. We need it to stay that way and not be rended by stupidity like I showed.

I sure hope you will stay, Major. I value your presence here. I am sure if it came down to the members choosing who should stay and who should go at this moment, I'd be the one voted to go. Hopefully, we can both stay.

Jim Ferreira

Jim & Tacfoley,

The comments above have been deleted.

I had no doubt that Tacfoley would respond in a positive manner to your retraction and apology because I know what kind of man he is...

The two of you are both standup guys...

It is a shame that other ruffled feathers can't be smoothed in this manner. You guys just set the example for the whole forum.

Thanks for showing us how things are supposed to be done,

Hi tacfoley,

Thank you for accepting my apology. It would be an honor calling you a friend.

Jim Ferreira

Bravo!. Pints of stout for the bar and a measure of Jamison's for Tacfoly, Jimbo and John S. Good to you!

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

I'm glad all that (whatever it was) is over.
Sorry to sound hard but aren't we a thin-skinned mob of lugerphiles! This discussion was about plans by the Australian Government to ban the private ownership of handguns and send proabaly a couple thousand of over beloved Lugers off to the melting pot (along with probably 200,000 other handguns, including a fair sprinkling of 96 Mausers, Colt's, Webley's and the like). Now we've all finished apologising to each other can we get back to the discussion! Honestly, if we "gun-nuts" spent as much time fighting the anti-gun lobby as we spent fighting and squabbling among ourselves, the gun control mantra would have gone the way of the Dodo years ago and we could all continue playing with our beloved trinkets in peace!
Please excuse my obviously colonial language on this post but this sort of sqabbling at a time when we are under direct threat gives me a classic case of the irits!
Regards to all.

John,
first of all greetings to down under!
One big step forward, thought unbelievable, has been made in Germany today: The 2 biggest gun forums will be joined on one platform now in order to form one front towards the anti's. This with support of the 3 biggest gun magazines (Visier, Caliber & Deutsches Waffenjournal).
I start seeing some light...
Juergen

Juergen,
That's great news, the only way to takle the anti-gun lobby and their various "mates" in government and the media is head on and flat out!

Give us some information (names of the shooting organisations, dates etc)and I try and get the information out down here on our email alerts.

Don't just fear a Government that wants your guns, hate them with a passion!

[quote]Originally posted by JuergenG:
<strong>John,
first of all greetings to down under!
One big step forward, thought unbelievable, has been made in Germany today: The 2 biggest gun forums will be joined on one platform now in order to form one front towards the anti's. This with support of the 3 biggest gun magazines (Visier, Caliber & Deutsches Waffenjournal).
I start seeing some light...
Juergen</strong><hr></blockquote>

Juergen, that's good news indeed. The best of luck to all German gun owners. Of course, most of our "luck" is self-made and you've taken the first step toward becoming a real force on the political scene. Way to go!

John said "the only way to takle the anti-gun lobby and their various "mates" in government and the media is head on and flat out! "

Too right brother. If there are going to be any demonstrations/marches etc like last time, make sure to "remind" your shooting mates about fronting up as well. It seems that the only thing that can sway a pollies mind on policy is for them to count the numbers.
I'll be there, you can count on it.
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

Here is the platform:
http://www.wo-system.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php
The platform is owned by Tom Marzi of Hoeppner & Schumann which is a holster maker company http://www.hoeppner-schumann.de/
I do know Tom personally as well as some of the mods.
Registration is mandatory as otherwise only a few sections are accessible.
There is an international section in English language as well. Very quiet at the moment; probably some of you folks could get it to life.
Juergen

John- Melb.
Prepare for your grandchildren. Black powder training and store firearms with springs and stuff. I don't know how to talk to you all. It's a little out of my...

Very dark clouds over down under: Ban likely!
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/...308312479.html
Juergen