Costanzo's Corrections
 

Pete, I think you had another great idea. I will volunteer to compile a list of corrections that are identified by the forum members. Please email me at mrbguy@msn.com or make your comments in this post. I will start with the following:

1) The failure to recognize Stick Eagle-over-83 Acceptance Marks for 1938 and 1939, S/42 Military Mausers

2) The questionable validity of the Japanese Chrysanthemum Crest on Dutch Lugers.

I'll be waiting!!!

:)

Frank,

Thanks for taking the lead on this !

Here is an easy one I can add :

Based on good stuff about the Navy stamps (crown/M) here on the Luger Forum in the Navy section, Costanzo's markings showing the crown "floating" way above the M is wrong...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

The marking Crown/Roman Numeral (i.e. C/I, C/II and C/III)found on holsters is identified in Constanzo as being a Weimar police district marking. I believe that it actually indicates the respective Bavarian corps.

Frank,

You have read my mind about a question I was going to post when my copy of Costanzo arrives. One thing I would suggest, it would be very useful if you would include page numbers.

--Dwight

Hi Frank,

Great idea!! Good for you. I just bought a copy for $205 and will look forward to corrections list.

You can be sure that I will add to corrections anything I find.

Regards,
Luke

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Luke:
<strong>....I just bought a copy for $205 and will look forward to corrections list....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Where did you find a copy that inexpensively? The only copies I've seen so far are in the $300+ range - and so, I still have not purchased one....

Also - Frank and all.. If you compile the corrections - I'll put them into a web link/page, if you would like, along with all credit to Frank and all contributors... Keep me posted if I can assist, OK??

Best to all..!

Hi John,

It just popped up on eBay with a "Buy It Now" option, and I just happened upon it by accident.
Some days are better than others.

Anyway, I closed the deal for $205 and was happy to get it.

Regards,
Luke

Dang, and when I saw Costanzo's book in the book store last year, it was $165! Thought it too high, now of course I know better!

BTW, I think you made a good deal Luke, :)

Ed

Hi Luke..!

WOW!! Excellent buy at that price...!!!! I've been looking for one for a while, and Herb sent me a link for one almost a year ago - and like Ed, it was much cheaper then today's prices.... If I'd only bought it back then (I say that a lot!!! :) )..!

It never rains but it pours. There is -yet another- copy of Costanzo for sale on ebay,

Costanzo's World of Lugers

currently at $208 and change. Since this one is a straight auction I would guess that its going to go for more than the last two copies...

--Dwight

John D, eat your heart out! Last year I bought TWO from the same dealer at a local gun show for $300 for the pair! And no, I don't have the extra one any more.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

John, There was one on Ebay yesterday, buy it now for $205.00 Jerry Burney

Jerry,

That's the one I bought.

Luke

This is illuminating the obvious for most of you guys, but I thought I would post it for the sake of some of the new folks who are not familiar with rare books.

Changes, corrections and notes should not be made in the book itself! Keep them on separate sheets that you can place at the appropriate pages or at the front or back of the book. This may be a bit more inconvenient, but it preserves the condition of the book. Also, if you are going to put them between the pages of the book, do not use a transferable ink, i.e. blue ball point.

I cringe when I find a really scarce reference only to discover it has been ruined by highlighting or marked up with underlining or marginalia. Even pencil markings are a no-no, they just never can be completely removed. Be careful with post-it notes. On some papers, if left for a long period of time, they can leave a residue that attracts dirt and stains.

Remember that you (or your heirs) may one day want to pass this book on to someone else, and probably at a considerable premium over its original cost.

This is an old, old posting, but since I just picked up a Costanzo, World of Lugers; I am interested in this subject!!

So, anyone have pages and comments that they never sent to Frank?

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Ed

All,

References that state S.D. grip strap markings refer to sichereitsdienst{Spelling??} (Reich Security Service)should reflect Schupo Dusseldorf.

Tom A.

P. 308 the Persian contract markings. #339 is inverted from #338 and #340. Actually the incsriptions on the 4" and 8" Persians are different, a discussion held on Jan Still's Forum and lost in the Great Hack. Policelugers may be able to elucidate.

--Dwight

Wow, talk about reviving an old topic this is it. You guys eat your heart out, I got my Costanzo at the Sacramento gun show back in the 80's for $35, the guy wanted $50 but I talked him down. I use it a lot and it's getting a little worn now but I keep my mint copy in the safe, as good as holding a U.S. bond. I've seen them for sale as high as $425, don't know if he ever sold it for that price though.

Hey Frank,

It is almost time for your holiday (at least for your avatar Frank :D )

I was just wondering if you have received any more Costanzo corrections from members other than the two listed at the top of this thread. If you have compiled an inclusive list of the known mistakes, I would like to post it here on the forum... I know other owners of Sam's book would be anxious to see the list.

John, I have passed on all the corrections I have received to Ed. I was under the assumption that he was going to put them in the Technical Section. Please check with him, but in the mean time I'll send you a copy!

Happy Halloween!!! :D

Ed,
can you e-mail me a copy of the corrections
thanks
Jim

I will just post them right here for now... and request that if any member knows of other fact discrepancies in Sam Costanzo' great book on Luger proofs/stamps "World of Lugers", that they post the discrepancy to this thread.

Thanks,

Here is Frank's consolidate list so far...

Costanzoâ??s Corrections:

1) The failure to recognize Stick Eagle-over-83 Acceptance Marks for 1938 and 1939, S/42 Military Mausers (Frank)

2) The questionable validity of the Japanese Chrysanthemum Crest on Dutch Lugers. (Frank)

3) Based on good stuff about the Navy stamps (crown/M) here on the Luger Forum in the Navy section, Costanzo's markings showing the crown "floating" way above the M is wrong... (Pete Ebbink)

4) The marking Crown/Roman Numeral (i.e. C/I, C/II and C/III) found on holsters is identified in Constanzo as being a Weimar Police District marking. I believe that it actually indicates the respective Bavarian corps. (Ron Wood)

5) Page 53, item 20 is listed as a "Magazine Release Spring" when it is, in fact, the magazine release BUTTON as identified on his other diagrams. (Luke Smithwick)

6) On page 276, middle of the page, he shows the years in which beech grips were used. He indicates that beech grips are found in "1915 TO 1916" Lugers. I have found beech grips on two honest, authentic DWM Lugers, one a 1917 and the other a 1918. (Luke Smithwick)

7) References that state S.D. grip strap markings refer to sichereitsdienst{Spelling??} (Reich Security Service) should reflect Schupo Dusseldorf. (Tom A.)

8) P. 308 the Persian contract markings. #339 is inverted from #338 and #340. Actually the inscriptions on the 4" and 8" Persians are different, a discussion held on Jan Still's Forum and lost in the Great Hack. Policelugers may be able to elucidate. (Dwight)

I will get out my Costanzo book later today, and see what I can make of it(item 8), I will give either an exact translation, or I will note it to you that I do not understand the word/words....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Frank:
<strong>John, I have passed on all the corrections I have received to Ed. I was under the assumption that he was going to put them in the Technical Section. Please check with him, but in the mean time I'll send you a copy! Happy Halloween!!! :D </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Well, the "listing" was smaller than I thought it was, and was no different than what is posted here on the forum... I hear people say there are lots of corrections to Costanzo, but if we go by this; there are all of eight corrections... That isn't bad for a 300 page book...

In reality, I believe there are more, but people don't bother helping others... I know that doesn't sound nice, but the small amount of people willing to post, or post pictures of their guns is very small compared to how many folks visit each day... I just don't get it? Lots of lurkers unwilling to help.

Ok, I just got back from the dentist and I am still groggy, plus came back from Philly Saturday and tomorrow I go to KY, then Chicago, so maybe I am not the best to be willing to share my time this week :D

Ed

Your not groggy....your cranky....hope your feeling better bud. Just picked up 3 Lugers last two days....man am I broke!

police luggers? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

I want to hear man, tell me about them!

:)

Ed

I broke the faith, Ida-alp's 1906 shown here on LF is on the way, no police safety, but you know I bought a complete mag safety from Sam a while back..humm could I make a 1906AE slash Weimar police??? and I got Pete's HK grips to polish it off, would make a fine piece....also picked up Peter Dunsters 1913/1920 with 2 matched mags (guns America), hard to find a good Berlin gun as so many were distroyed in fall of city during WW2, and a match mag 1918 from back east on Gunbroker, made offers on each and both were accepted...you want to be the first on my door step the minute I keel over, Mrs.PL could not care less about Lugers and had no idea of value:)

Well, I'll keep you in MY pretend will, if you do the same for me!

Hey, I asked about that 1906, need one, but they require money!!! Sometime in the future, I'll pick one up...

:D

Other guns sound great too!

Ed

Sometime in the future this one could be yours...think about it...

If what we'd talked about before... :)

Hey you need to come this-a-way, weimar_police wife would like to meet PL wife :D

Ed

OK here is my best translation, remember there are 32 letters in the Persian alphabet...not all words will give a flawless translation to english, Costanzo proof 339 reads" "parabellum" (but is a close translation to "problem" also, second word is "small or short" third word is "sample"...and date "1314". While 339 is upside down 338 and 340 are also transposed right to left instead of left to right as Farsi is written/read...or is it? as I do not have an example here to look at, if 338/340 are correct then it reads "1314 parabellum short/small sample"....the chicken scratch on 338 to the right, well it really has no meaning in Farsi to my knowledge and of course no translation to english...it would be a literal translation to english "bansay" this could be also translated to a symbol, perhaps something like "pepsi", now we all know that pepsi is a soda, but not a real word in its self...I like Coke anyway...I hope this helps....please email me if you have question....my mother passed away when I was very young, grandmother continued to use Farsi around the home and American father grow tired of it and discourged it...rusty at best.

Howard,

Check p. 227 for other examples of the chamber mark. My recollection of the previous discussion is that the inscription is slightly different for the 4" and 8" barrel length, the difference being the designation of the length.

The "chicken scratch is actually the gun's proof mark, it appears to be interchangeable with the crown in mark 339.

See Lugers At Random pp.268-269, 378; Third Reich Lugers pp.185-187 (two of the same pages are reproduced in Axis Pistols, pp.358-359); The Luger Book (Walter) pp.202-204; The Luger Story p.181.

--Dwight

All 3 proofs in Costanzo, page 227, read the same, the only difference is the "chicken scratch proof", symbol proof and lack of proof, and it is good to hear that my rusty translation is close, that it is a symbol and not a "word"...as for LAR, the pictures are not the best, but it reads as Costanzo has it, if you could get me a clear picture of an 8" inscription, other then what Costanzo shown on page 227, perhaps I could read it....perhaps of interest is the Iranian year runs from March 21 to March 21, first day of spring to first day of spring, so order/delivery time frame for Lugers could run a bit off of what most folks think it was, not Jan 1 to Jan 1...and Walters give no picture or insight to a proof mark for 8" barrels...just shows top and left sides....