1900 AE Luger Restoration or not?
 

The owner of this early DWM Eagle is looking for opinions to leave as is or restore. This one is not marked GERMANY so it might be an out of range Test Eagle. The thing that concerns me about leaving it as is would be the side plate, barrel and eagle stamp. What ya think? Thanks! Double click on each thumbnail picture and you get a REALLY BIG photo of the weapon.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1900AERight.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1900AERight.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1900AETop.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1900AETop.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1900AELeft.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1900AELeft.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1900AEBarrel.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1900AEBarrel.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Thor,
If it were mine, you'd be restoring it.
Just my opinion,
Tom

Thor,
In my opinion, there isn't much of an option. Restore it to it's original beauty.Others may feel differently.
Bill

The impression from the holster on the right side grip would give me pause on restoration until I could determine that it was not an out of range test pistol.

On second thought, if this is an all matching pistol, I would leave it as is.

What a beautiful old piece, and great photos! There is a reasonable likelihood that it is a test example...the bruise on the right grip panel is typical of the mark left by the closure stud on the original Rock Island Arsenal holster. (Added:Sorry Wes, you made your keen observation while I was composing my rambling reply)

At a minimum it deserves a good cleaning to halt the active rust. Judging from the photos and the appearance of the sideplate I would think that the rust has occurred in the not too distant past and it has been the victim of an amateur attempt to "spruce it up" that stopped with the sanding of the side plate and then was poorly stored allowing the rust to develop. What a shame, because obviously the weapon had no significant wear prior to being allowed to rust.

To restore or not to restore...that is the question (sorry Will, it is an easy quote to paraphrase). It is up to the integrity of the current and future owners. It has already suffered the effects of non-collector abuse, so in reality further modification, i.e. restoration, should not impact its intrinsic worth and would certainly preserve a link to its past history in a condition commensurate with its importance. On the other hand, making it something it isn't is not honorable unless it is passed on with full disclosure of the restoration, hence the reference to the integrity of ownership that demands that the history of condition and restoration should accompany it from this day forward.

It is a tough call, glad I don't have to make the decision.

Guys,

Tis gun will *never* pass muster as an original if restored (Assuming a RKI is examining the piece) and is far too nice to be left in this sad condition. I would vote to have a restoration done, which is unusual for me.

Hmmm..must be working too hard or drinking inferior cognac.

Stuff happens.

Tom A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Tom A:
<strong>....

Stuff happens.

.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">and...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Tom A:
<strong>....

Stuff happens.

.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Sometimes "twice" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Oh shoot!...I hate to make decisions like this, but the gun is just too nice to let it like it is now. The contours are crisp and the markings are still capable of being recovered. Restore it while it is restorable. May the purist demagogues have mercy on me.

Do your magic,and bring that old girl back to her glory!

Thor et al,

This is a great pistol. Obviously measures need to be taken right now against the active rust, and it is really too bad about the side plate.

I have no problem with the Test Eagle designation, in my view the lack of the GERMANY stamp is the only consistent characteristic. I am glad to know about the grip bruise, however.

This gun seems to have quite a bit of original finish left on it, and I'd certainly want to see it cleaned of rust before I made the recommendation to restore or not. I'm certain it will come as no surprise to anyone here that my own prediliction with this Luger would be to clean and not restore. On balance, I note that the grips seem to be in -really- nice shape, and would certainly support the appearance of a restoration.

--Dwight (merciful purist/demagogue)

Hey Thor, You know how I feel about the subject of restorations. While this old gal isn't quite as bad as the 1st Varation K-Date you restored for me, I believe I would do the job, as it will stop further degradation and fix up the lame try at "fixing" the trigger plate.

At Least my 2 cents worth!!

I don't have much to say about the value or potential as a "test eagle", but here are a few observations based on the GREAT photo's.

What about the collecting axiom of condition,condition, condition? or does the potential rarity make this a museum piece in any shape?

There appear to be some pitting on the left side of the barrel - would this be welded during restoration?

From the photo's, the most rusting is on the left side. the safety lever, sideplate, takedown lever, and barrel. Think she was just poorly stored in the holster on the left side under humid conditions? I could see where the sideplate would have seen the worst reation with contact area there.

Just thinkin'
Fritz.

Just stopping the active rust would not appreciate the value of this old girl...

She is too beautiful to just ignore... I think she should go under the hand of the master surgeon to restore her as she was in her youth...

Thor...this is just my vote... and as you know it is only worth http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/2cents.jpg :D

I take it from the comments regarding the checkering marking on the right grip from a particular holster, the consesus would be to leave the grips as is?

Absolutely, do not do anything to raise or obliterate the dent on the right grip. That is as close to provenance for being a Test Luger as you will get for an "out of range" piece. Those grips are really great as is.

I'll go with the majority opinion; restore the metal, but leave the grips as is.

And don't forget to post before and after pics,so I can dream it's mine.

Have Thor restore the entire gun, including the grips. I don't get it--if you had a '55 Chevy that needed a complete restoration, would you do the paint but not the interior? Or maybe the engine but not the broken windows? Of course not! You would restore the entire car, unless you were concerned that it would loose it's "collector value" if you touched it at all.
DougT

Doug,
If you think about it a bit I believe you will "get it". There are several factors that make an item collectable. For Lugers they are primarily condition, rarity and historical significance.
Using your example, how much more valuable is a restored '55 Chevy with correct original colors, upholstery, matching serial numbers, etc., than one that really looks great but has none of the above.
One of the things that make this Luger desirable is its probable link to US military history. Restoration will make it look good again, but since there is quite some controversy surrounding Lugers that have all the characteristics of a US Test Trial weapon but do not fall in the hallowed 6100-7100 serial number range, a positive link, even one so small as a strategically positioned dent in the grip, is very significant to reinforce the probable historical significance of the piece and therefore just as important as using the correct trim on a '55 Chevy.
Beauty is more than skin deep, it needs character as well. It isn't just a matter of losing collector value, it is preserving what little bit of history we can.

My opinion on restorations has always been: I would rather have an original with 0% finish, than restored example." Now that I have said that, I've got Thor working an a 1900AE at this moment (my first restoration) -- but that was a gun missing the take down and a few other parts. So, in my little mind, I say to myself "these are just parts I'm having put together"...

I now modify my stance. After viewing this weapon. My new standard shall be: "dicked up requires fix up". I would consider cleaning the grips without recutting and restoring the metal.

Fixing a messed-up fix on a sub-par gun (i.e. barely in the 'collectability' range, due to condition), should not be viewed as desecrating old bones.

I am fairly new here but you all know what opinions are like, everyone has one; I would definitely restore the metal, not re-cut the grips, maybe clean them if needed.
I am a firm believer in restoring guns that have too much abuse to support collector value. As long as the gun is not altered to be something it was not. I believe restoring gives the collector more opportunity to have a rare piece. I fully accept the fact that a restored gun will not be worth as much as a pristine originals. Truth about the restoration is essential when presenting or selling and should be reflected in the price. I would rather restore a poor example of a rare piece than see it end up as a parts donor. So many rare guns have been lost already and more are ruined each year from poor storage and misguided attempts to "fix" them. I am concerned that without some forms of restoration our hobby will eventually be limited to the ultra rich.

Whew, that was a tall soap box.

Thanks,
Bob M.