Artillery Luger Help!
 

I have an DWM 1917 Artillery luger. It has been in my family 60+ years. It is suppose to be a WWI bring back. It has 9s in the grips. They are about 42mm long and 20mm wide. The longest serial # I can find is 3 digits and begins with a 6. the last two digits are on all the other parts. There is a fully adjustable sight on the barrel. On the right side of the barrel/receiver there are 4 emblems, I can't tell what the first three are but the last looks like an eagle with out-stretched wings wearing a crown. Going by memory the 9s look like the ones on the luger on page 29 of Bulls "WEAPONS OF THE 20TH CENTURY". Unfortunately I am not able to post pics. Any info would be appreciated. william

William, you made it!

There are some experts on here that should be able to help you. I love the Artillery model, have a 1914 Erfurt.

The 3 serial number is acceptable, each year they started over with numbers, there were approx 90,000 long barrel (artillery) and short barrels made that year (serial numbers ran consecutive). Although Jan's lowest serial number recorded is 248, so you have one of the older ones for that year.

I'd like to add that Luger grips with the "9" carved into them are not common. The numbers are likley painted red and there's some question why Luger grips were so marked. The military-issue Broomhandle Mausers in 9mm had grips with the red "9" to distinguish them from the more common 7.63mm Mausers. Military Lugers in the German Imperial Army should all be 9mm so issue of incorrect ammunition would not have been a problem.

If your three digit serial number doesn't have a suffix letter under it on the frame of the pistol, your Artillery will have been one of the very first made in 1917. If it's been in the family 60+ years, you have an heirloom in the making. It's a great pistol and knowing something of it's history can only enhance the value to your family.

Just the 3 #s. Mentioning family hierloom makes me feel guilty. I have had it in the back of my mind for a while to trade for something I really want. Does anyone know of a dealer in VA that I could take it to to have it apraised? BTW, this isn't a post fishing for offers. I have had it for over 10 yrs and will probably hold onto it for a good while longer as when I do trade I want to make sure it is something that I really want that I am sure that there will be absolutely no regrets over. thanks again for all responses. william

Artilleries go from $700 up to around $1200 and then up depending on rarity and magic potion of all, Condition.

So, pictures posting of it could get a lot better idea of what it is worth. {I am on the other side of the ole USA, so.., but there are other collectors in that area, I don't personanlly know any dealers over yonder...}

On previous postings of artilleryâ??s, they sometimes don't have matching numbers, bad rust, were in almost mint shape, were not artilleryâ??s to start off with (long barrels placed on them later). So, my point is, that if anything is wrong with it, the collector value drops off dramatically and others are interested only in it as a "shooter".

I am sure many would be interested in hearing what you are looking for as a trade? [img]biggrin.gif[/img] Some of us have guns or other items that maybe would make good trading material back at ya? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Forgot to mention that on top of the barrel it has 1917 along with DWM. Mine is probably not worth a bunch even though it all seems to match the outside shows much use. Mechanically it seems to be in very good shape. the few times I shot it the groups were amazing.

Man, these lugers are complicated fireams. I will try to get a pic up sometime in the future ( I am computer challenged [img]biggrin.gif[/img] )

If someone from eastern VA wants to look at it I can bring it to the next Richmond or Hampton gunshow. I would love to find out all the info I can.

Thanks .... william

Jagdterrier, I have sent you a private message.

Still trying to find someone in eastern VA that could look at it and give me a rough idea of the value. I don't want to ask too much but then again I wouldn't want o let it go for way less than the value. Any help would be appreciated.

Still can't do those darn pics

Hello William,

If you send your jpegs as an attachment to an e-mail to me at "pebbink@pacbell.net", I would be happy to upload and post them for you in this message thread.

It is not hard to do yourself, but takes a little practice...

Once folks see this piece in photos, I am sure you will get some reasonable offers to buy this LP-08 via the Private Message utility of the Luger Forum...

You might also want to consider keeping this piece in the family...since it's been in your family for some time...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

William,
please look at my web site where you can find an article concerning LP08 and also several pictures.
Ciao
Mauro

Thanks P.E I will probably take you up on that. I will take some pics( have to have them developed as no digital) and scan them in.

mauro, I don't know if its my computer but none of the pictures on your sight would load.

Thanks for the replies.

ah.........Artillery Lugers!! <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/MM1914Erfurt1.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/MM1914Erfurt1.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/red9grips.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/red9grips.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

william,

You are welcome to send hard copy pictures to myself or to Pete's house and we would scan them in for you. The more, clearer and detailed the better,

Ed

William,
also Thor is not able to see correctly my web site. I guess that your computer is not correctly updated. Try to update your Explorer using Windows Update, in this way your computer will be updated with the last "items" made by Mr. Gates.
In any case I will send you a copy of the article available on my site. I have written this article few months ago for an Italian Gun Magazine (of course I send you the traslation into English).
Please provide my your email address and I will sent it asap.
Ciao

The "Red Nine" grips are real collector grips. They were originally put on early commercial lugers during the transition from 30 cal to the now famous 9mm. Over time, they were moved from one type of Luger to another by individuals because they simply looked cool. There is some indication that they may have been put on Weimar Era commercial Lugers to differential 30 cal from 9mm during that period. But they are still collectible and desirable.

Artillery Lugers will go from $500 to $2000 depending on a number of factors. The year of the chamber top (in your case 1917), condition (very much like coin collecting) and matching serial numbers on all parts including magazines and grips.

But some dates are more valuable than others. A chamber dated 1914 DWM will sell for more than a chamber dated 1917 because of scarcity. A very nice chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery could go for as much as $5500. Maybe more. Rare items are always hard to price.

Then we get into the accessories. An artillery Luger with an original stock, numbered to the Luger and an artillery holster with all the attaching leather and straps with an appropriate date and manufacturer will pull the price up much higher. Again, the condition of the holster and straps are important.

Personally, I consider an artillery Luger with all matched parts and matching stock, grips and magazine as a rig. Add an appropriate holster with all the attaching leather and straps and I call that a full rig. Add a Trommel (snail drum) magazine with a loader and I will call that ... OUTRAGEOUS!!! (Personal emphasis added.) Of course, the price will be adjusted accoringly. Homes, yachts and gold bars accepted.
Big Norm

Finally have pics!

P. Ebbink, if that offer still stands I will e-mail the pics for you to post. Thanks....william

William,

Yes, if you send me your photo-jpeg files, I will create in Member's Gallery a photo study of your 1917 Artillery for you.

Placing them there allows for photo files bigger than 180 KB to be posted, as is the limit if I just post your photos in this discussion thread.

My home e-mail is : pebbink@pacbell.net

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Since you appear to have a scanner, you could actually scan an image of your Luger and get it posted.

I have the pictures on a kodak CD.

Send them to Pete or me,

Ed

Here are the pictures:

http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/ek_1.jpg
http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/ek_2.jpg

Bigger sizes of William's photos :

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/BillsArty1.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/BillsArty1.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/BillsArty2.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/BillsArty2.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

ADMIN: Pete, I "thumbed" the larger pics, I despise the huge ones, if I click on them fine, but with my screen set to 1024x768, I have to scroll back and forth to read and it is a failing that I have, so i chnaged them to thumbed. Hope you don't mind, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> ed

Jagdterrier, The grips, though worn to a nub, are the best part of your pistol. The artillery appears to have had the frame (bottum) chromed. It is quite possible that the barrel and barrel extension (which are not chromed) are not serial numbered to the frame. Regardless, the chrome job reduces the value of he pistol to a couple of hundred bucks if you sell it wisely. I would suggest pulling everything off the chromed frame and selling it piece by piece on Ebay. The artillery barrel and extension with the correct toggle train should bring several hundred bucks. The grips, though worn, may bring $75. Please note that it is a violation of Ebay rules to offer to sell the frame on Ebay.

William,

I disagree with George; who is a very knowledgable LP-08 collector on one point...that of selling this gun off as a "parts gun".

Since it has been in your family for many years with a link to a WWI participant and that fact that you mentioned the gun is all matching; I would suggest you consider having this piece restored by a craftsman such as Thor (Ted Green). And Hugh Clark could certainly make those grips look much better...

Since you have not laid any money down to acquire this piece, you would only be looking at some restoration costs ($ 600 to maybe $ 900).

You would end up with retaining some family history that can be passed on to your family and have a sound mechanical shooter that would look great !

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Thanks for all the help. I din't think I was sitting on a small fortune because of the condition. I had already decided that if I ever did sell it would be for at least $800 or equivalent trade or it wouldn't be worth it to me to sell. I take it it is not worth that and I should just stick it back in storage. In defense of my stupidity I was going by the cost of mismatched Lugers that I see from time to time in the SGNs. I really appreciate all the responses and help that I received. William

William,

If your Arty is going back into storage, I would suggest some treatment to curtail what appears to be some serious rusting over the gun's finish.

If you do a Luger Forum "search" on the word "rust", you will probably pick up some very useful advice that some of our sage collectors have posted in recent months...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

If your talking about the brown on the parts with the shiny finish the gun doesn't look like that. Was the camera telling me something? I always keep it wiped down with oil & in a hard case since it came into my possesion. Should I store it coated in cosmoline or something similar?

William

Maybe its just my very old tired eyes (the rest of me is great), but I don't see chromed parts. I just think that the pictures are not of the quality to make a good judgement.

The "Red Nine" grips are worth more than $75. Heck, original grips alone (without the safety chip gone) go for $100 plus. A nice job of rechechering for $45 would fix them up nicely. But they would then have to go on a nice Artillery Luger to look right. I would consider removing the "Red Nine" grips from the gun and installing less valuable ones. If someone recklessly removed them and broke off the chip around the safety, then they would be considerably less valuable, if not worthless.

Does the gun have a matching magazine? I mean, does the magazine bottom have the same serial number as the gun? I can't tell from the pictures, But does the gun have any pitting on it? Its not uncommon for an old gun to have a very light rusting on the grip straps. That comes from the salty sweat on the hands of the shooter and bad maintenance. What is the bore like?

I still can't make a judgement on the price of your gun. But an artillery luger would have to be bad for it to go for less than $1200. An artillery would have to be a wreck to go for $800 or less. Considering the quality of the photos, I would roughly put your gun in the $1100-1500 range with the existing grips. Without holding it in my hands, that is just an educated guess.

Restoring an artillery does not cost $900. But if you have pitting and a bad bore then I would not consider it. Pitting on the gun makes the restoration less cost effective...depending.
Big Norm

The gun does have what appears to be Nickle plating. I do nort know how to judge the bore but I shot two clips out of it since I aquired it and they were the best groups I ever shot from a centerfire pistol.

There is the big gun show at the Hampton Coliseum in two weeks and I will try to find some cosmoline or storage grease there also maybe a special storage bag.