P-08 ????
 

I was given a P-08 Luger handgun by a friend of mine who happens to be a gun collector. It was given to him also, but he nor I was able to distinguish the weapons' origin. This piece has the DWM inscription on the toggle. Because it was supposidly in a fire or in an explosion, alot of the markings are very hard to distinguish. I cleaned it up as best that I could and was able to get a serial # from the frame below the barrel, that being 4857. The number 57 appears at least 5 times on various parts, including the barrel and the toggle. Under the serial # is the letter m. I also distinguish a possible crown/n on the bottom side of the barrel above the #57.The word GESICHERT is present on the safety. These are the only markings that I have been able to find. The overall length of the weapon is 8 1/4 inches. It appears that the barrel length is 3 inches.Can someone please help me identify the age and origine of this weapon.

You most probably have a 1920 commercial DWM made after the first world war in quantity. Most were made for export and the piece should have "germany" somewhere stamped on it. This fire damaged relic should probably become a shooter. Worth about $400-600 IMO.

Thank you so much for the reply. I did neglect to mention that, on the right hand side of the outer casing, I did manage to distinguish "many". I presumed that this probably was the last four letters of Germany. The letter m that is found just under the serial number, does this signify a Mauser?

Welcome to the forum, sir. The DWM means "Deutsche Waffen und Munititions", this is the maker. Th "m" below the serial # is the block series. They were made in blocks using the sns up to a designated number under "a" block, then again the same numbers using "b" block, ect. It kept the serial numbers manageable and possibly estreamlined the production process by using the repeat numbers on the small parts. Mauser used the code "byf". The collector folks here can provide much more detailed info, they really know their Lugers. I just like to shoot them.

rk

[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill:
<strong>The DWM means "Deutsche Waffen und Munititions", this is the maker. rk</strong><hr></blockquote>

Just a minor correction: It should be "Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken". The whole thing translates to: "German Arms and Munitions Manufacturers".

The fact that you do not mention a date on the receiver plus the C/N commercial proof on the barrel plus the suffix letter "m" plus the barrel length being less than 100mm is a pretty good indication that it's a post-WW1 "commercial" DWM Luger. Further indicators would include a second C/N proof mark on the left forward side of the slide (just in front of the sideplate) and the last two digits of the serial number being stamped on the underside of the sideplate and the locking bolt (take-down lever)in a commercial manner. The toggle train will be free of serial numbers except for the last two digits on the rear toggle at the very back of the toggle behind the rear sight. The sear bar and safety lever will also be unmarked.

However, IF the pistol is a WW1 military re-work with a replacement barrel in .30 caliber, the top of the receiver will likely show uneven flats from having the date ground off and the sideplate and locking bolt will have the last two digits of the serial number stamped on the side rather than underneath. The toggle train, extractor, safety lever and sear bar will also be marked. The breechblock will have the last two serial number digits on the side but unseen unless the toggle train is removed from the slide. It would still be considered a "commercial" pistol and this variation (in both new manufacture and reworked military from the post-WW1 era) is the most common Luger in existence. They have little collector value at this time.

Thank you for the welcome and the information. Upon further review, I faintly can make out the crown/n on the left forward side of the slide, just forward of the slide plate. The last two digits of the serial number are located on the rear toggle at the very back of the toggle behind the rear sight. I feel sure that I do have a post w.w.1 commercial model. Although it is a common version of this beautiful weapon, I am still very proud to own it. My aim is to make a display model out of it. It is jammed and non functional at this time. All I really need are a set of handgrips for this model, since they were most certainly lost due to the fire. The story that I was told , by my friend who gave me the weapon, which is the story that he was given when he aquired it, is that it was found in the sand desert in North Africa during or toward the end of W.W.II. I have no way to confirm this story. But could it be possible?? Thanks again for the help and thank you for allowing me into your forum.

Amazing!! Thank you for the information. Can anyone help me locate a pair of hand grips? I hate to ask for something else since you have been so helpful. Thanks so VERY much to all of you that responded. stan

Stanley,

You have many options.

1. Buy reproduction grips, these can be bought at Sarco, Numrich Arms, Tom Heller probably has some (link to your left at http://www.lugerforum.com/lugerlink.html

2. Buy repro from e-bay or other gun auctions sites

3. Buy real old ones, they can get expensive

4. Hugh Clark finishes some of the repro ones and makes them fit perfectly, and this is a slight concern, many of the repro ones don't fit worth a darn.

Your P.08 may be 'jammed and inoperative' now, but unless it has rusted to a solid mass, it should still be possible to get it apart and return it to a functioning piece. In any event, you should treat this pistol as a loaded weapon and capable of discharging until you have proved that it is not.

It is not rusted into a solid mass. I have made some progress, with the help of penetrating oil, to loosen up the toggle function. But it still will only withdraw approx. 1 inch. I have been able to remove most of the rust, very carefully using rust removing solvent, from a reblueing kit, and by using very fine steel wool. I have spoken to a local gunsmith who says that he beleives that he can un-jam it for me. So it is something that I will be looking at having done in the near future. I'm not looking to sell the weapon, but rather to keep it as a war relic. Finding out some of the history behind not only my Luger, but Luger handguns in general, has only peaked my interest. I'm glad to find your forum so that I can be connected with other interested people like myself. Thanks

If you can move the toggle a whole inch, does the slide move back in the frame during this movement?

If the slide moves even a half inch, you should be able to open the takedown lever and remove the upper half... If you can't, then keep using penetration oil until you can.

If you use plenty of penetration oil and let it soak a couple of days you should be able to get slide movement by holding the frame in your hand and striking the muzzle with a large rubber mallet that will cause no harm. Once it moves you are on your way to disassembly...

The gunsmith will only be necessary if you don't feel like taking your time and doing the work yourself.

Keep at it and let us know how you make out.

Got a buddy whose truck burned up. Big white Ford 250 4wd, something to do with those CBs shorting out (plus alcohol of course) point is he left his 1911A1 in the truck when we went in the bar, we dug it out from the junk yard later, took a lot of work cause the rounds exploded and bent the frame, but I think he still shoots it. I told him not to. It took a lot of pressure to break the slide loose. I learned from him that a good friend is one who will post your bail and get you out of jail. Your BEST friend though is the one sitting on the cot beside you in jail saying "boy, we really screwed up this time".

rk

after hearing that story, i feel more confident about restoring my little peice of history. Maybe your buddy will give me some pointers. By the way, I am soaking the gun in penetrating oil as we speek. I am going to let it soak for a few days and then take a shot at unlocking it. thank you Mr. Sabato for the pointers. If anyone has any more ideas, please dont be afraid to pass them along.I promise not to get upset. thanks

One more suggestion, get a wooden dowel that will fit down the bore but not too tight, use a small rubber mallet and slowly knock the bolt to the rear. This will put the more pressure on the bolt face to slide to the rear than you can do by pulling the toggle up. After you are sure there isn't a round in the chamber, put some heat on it. Works wonders on rusted nuts.

rk

There is a product called Kroil that is used to penetrate rusty bolts. It works wonders. I have never had to use it on a gun yet, but last year I poured some in a motorcycle engine that was siezed. Let it set a few days and it broke the piston free.

I use Kroil all the time on Lugers, good stuff!

Kroil? Never heard of that. You can't live in Alabama and not deal with rusted nuts, locked up lawnmower, chain saw, and 4 wheeler engines. We do take better care of our guns though. More info, please.

rk

Kroil Oil from Brownells CLICK HERE TO ACCESS
http://www.brownells.com/images/products/471100008.JPG
The Oil That Creeps
A lubricating and penetrating oil that flows into the tiniest of crevices, lifts away lead and copper jacket fouling, frees up super-tight barrels, loosens frozen screws and bolts. Dissolves dried grease and oil, displaces water, without harming metal. Works great for getting underneath and loosening built-up carbon, copper and lead fouling in shotgun, rifle and pistol barrels.
SPECS: 8 fl.oz (236ml) can.

Stanley,

Mr. Sabato is my Dad (83 at his last birthday). You can just call me John.

You said the gun was soaking in penetrating oil... if it is not the whole gun, make sure that at least the upper half (like including the magazine catch) is down in the oil to insure that that all the hard working and moving parts are included in the soak...

The hardwood dowel of appropriate size down the muzzle pounded with the heavy rubber mallet should get the toggle working in short order.

If the takedown lever is frozen, make sure you work it gently down (clockwise) with the toggle held in the rear position.

If you lived closeby, I would be happy to assist you in the disassembly of this old soldier. Unless the chamber and barrel are really corroded, I would venture to say that this piece will eventually be shootable...

Good luck again and keep us informed on your progress... photos would be nice too.

Thanks guys, I am going to be on the lookout for Kroil. It sounds like it might come in handy for a lot of things. I live in the northwest part of Florida, near Pensacola. So I can relate to the effects of heat and most of all humidity on just about everything, including myself. John, when you say to gently move the takedown lever down, clockwise, with the toggle in the rear position. Could you be more specific to what "toggle in the rear position" is referring to? I just want to make sure that we are on the same page. Remember, you are dealing with an amateur here. But I am usually a quick study, and again, I do appreciate the help

The takedown lever (or locking bolt as some call it) is held in the horizontal position by the force of the slide being pushed forward by the recoil or mainspring.

if you can hold the Luger in your hand and press the muzzle against a hard surface (like a carpeted floor to prevent scratching) and push you should be able to make the slide move to the rear about a half inch if you have no siezed parts... the takedown lever can then be moved 90 degrees clockwise to allow the upper assembly to be slid off the frame after the sideplate is removed...

I hope this helped...

'Kroil' is a product of Kano Labs, Nashville, TN, and is available from their website along with all their great products. Actually, 'Sili-Kroil' is the better penetrant.

well, even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then. Thanks to the helpful advice from you guys, I have been able to unlock the toggle { by using the dowel and a rubber hammer ] and i have also been able to slide the upper part of the chamber backward approx. 1 inch. But I still am unable to rotate the takedown lever any at all. Should the upper cylinder spring back forward when released? Mine does not. Is there another step that I might have neglected that would free up the takedown lever? Also,last but not least. I have not yet been able to hear the audible click when I pull the trigger. As I type this note, the Luger is soaking in penetrating oil, with just about all of the upper half submerged. I sprayed heavy doses of the oil everywhere that I could find an opening, paying special attention to the trigger mechanism as well as the inner chamber and toggle. I have not given up, in fact, I have only begun to fight. Here's hoping!! stan

Stan, you're killing me. I want to get my hands on your Luger so badly I can smell the penetrating oil. The top cylinder I think you are referring to is the bolt. Its attached to the toggle, when the toggle is closed/flat it is forward against the chamber face. The bolt will not return to the closed position because of the mainspring being frozen. That's no problem to replace later. Nor will there be a click when the trigger is pulled until you can get the sideplate off and see what needs to be done there. Also no problem just careful cleaning required. But try again as John recommended to get the sideplate off. That has to be the next step. The front of the side plate is held by the locking nut, the rear is held in place by an 1/8" edge on the opposite side. Lift the sideplate up from the left side when the locking nut is rotated down.
rk

Stan,

As John said, you have to move the entire top "cannon" of the Luger back on the grip frame about 1/2" to rotate the takedown lever down and remove the sideplate. Opening the toggle won't release the lever, you have to move the "cannon" (the entire upper unit containing the toggle, barrel, etc.) back by gripping the frame and pressing the end of the barrel against a hard surface (slightly padded with a rag to prevent damaging the barrel). Sometimes it takes three or four hands to do this. It might be helpful to use a plastic putty knife to pry the head of the lever down while holding the "cannon" back. (I had to use the plastic putty knife on my 1936 shooter when I first got it--but it has loosened up now.)

so far so good. I've got it apart. I'll keep you posted, thanks, stan

Well guys, It was tough to persuade the takedown lever to turn for me, but with the help of alot of penatrating oil, as well as some light taps with the rubber mallet, I finally got it to cooperate. The upper bolt housing, { i guess you would call it ], would not move easily forward so I used the rubber mallet to, carefully , persuade it to move also. Once I had the top half off, I could begin the process of soaking and cleamning the inner workings of the gun. I am still in the process of cleaning and will begin reassembly soon. My wife is complaining that the gun has taken me away from her. So I have to spread my time out between her, my job and working on the Luger. I wish that she could get as excited about the project as I am, but she has other interest. Oh well, I'll still manage. Anyway, thanks again for the help. I will keep you guys posted on my progress, good or bad. Although I didnt take any before pictures of the gun, I will try and take some soon showing the results of my labor. I COULD'NT have done it without your help. You are all first class in my book. later, stan

Congratulations! You have disassembled your first Luger. I also had no idea how to do it the first time but I've got that thing so trained that when I go to the toy room and look at it hanging on the wall it jumps down and disassembles itself. Don't worry about the wife, mine gave up on me years ago. I might not be doing what she wants but she knows where I am.

rk

I picked up my hand grips today and they really make a lot of differance in the way that the gun looks. I let the local gunsmith take a look at her to get an opinion on what it might take to get the thing to work again. It is missing the main spring as well as a couple of other springs that he pointed out while we looked at a exploded picture. Exploded being the key word."S" Anyway, he made up a needed parts list and I am to get back with him on the cost. Once I take the dip, I'll have to go all the way. But functionl or not, I still have a great looking peice. Thanks for all of your input. Much appreceated,,,stan

Stanley,

You can probably get all the parts you need from Tom Heller, a member of this forum. He goes by Lugerdoc and may even jump in on this thread.

How can I contact Mr. Heller? I have considered resting for a while and just enjoying the progress that i have made so far. But there is something inside of me that keeps pushing me to finish what I've started. So , the search is on. Wish me luck...

Hello Stanley,

1. Tom can be reached at : hellerarms@webtv.net

2. I am not sure about your "H" on the right side, but I think the lack of lots of remaining original blue and straw on the small parts makes your pistol a shooter. A decent buy at $ 500.00, once you get her in working order.

3. I suspect your grips are repros with the lack of fit at the top of the frame on the left side and the fact that a gun with much blue and straw wear should have comparable wear on the grips.

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Can someone please tell me if the main spring that is pictured in the technical section of this forum { the exploded picture of the Luger with the parts numbered } , the one that I need for my particular commercial model? I want to be sure before I attempt to order one. Also, if I remove the breech block pin as well as the extractor pin, will I be able to get to the firing pin and the firing pin spring and retainer? I am attempting to do as much of this myself as I can. Thanks for all of your help..stan

Only have a minute... but the firing pin, firing pin spring, and firing pin retainer are removed by simply pressing in slightly on the retainer with an appropriate screw driver and turn 90 degrees counter clockwise... no pins need be removed to disassemble these parts...

john, thanks for the heads up information on the firing pin. Is the main spring that I need for my pistol the same one that is pictured and numbered in your technical parts and dissassembly section. { No. 034 } ??

034 is the mainspring guide. 033 is the mainspring. If the mainspring is completely missing, you may also be missing the mainspring guide.

Yes, Its missing both. Thanks for the response..I'm going to a gun show in Ft. Walton Beach today hoping to find someone with some spare parts, but I dont have my hopes up. I'll enjoy looking around anyway..

Mr. Wood, can you give me any advice on the easiest way to install the mainspring and the guide once i get one, whice will be soon, I hope..thanks

Back in March of this year Ted Green (Thor) posted a 10 step installation guide with photos on the old forum (You can click on the "Search Old Board" that appears in the menu on the left side of the screen if you came to this forum via www.lugerforum.com) and search for "Luger Mainspring Installation" on 3/21/02. Unfortunately the photos are no longer attached to the postings. Perhaps Thor could re-post them on this forum. In the meantime, later on this evening I will extract the text from the old forum and post them here in case you have difficulty accessing the old forum.

P.S. It's Ron. Although I am old, I'm not old enough to be Mr. Wood. (At least I don't think I am)

SEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeenor WOOD! I am uploading the photos right now!

Main Spring Picture 1
Main Spring Picture 2
Main Spring Picture 3
Main Spring Picture 4
Main Spring Picture 5
Main Spring Picture 6
Mainspring Guide rod shown reversed and incorrectly in Picture 6
Main Spring Picture 7
Main Spring Picture 8
Main Spring Picture 9
Main Spring Picture 10