WWI (Great War) bringback
 

Here is a link to a site that contains these photos of a WWI bringback (the Great War). Fantastic gun. Brought back by the site owner's father Captain H. B. Wilson DFC (1896-1981).

Link:
http://www.patrickwilson.com/WW1ob2.htm

http://www.patrickwilson.com/holster3.jpg

http://www.patrickwilson.com/luger2.jpg

http://www.patrickwilson.com/luger_close1.jpghttp://www.patrickwilson.com/luger_close2.jpg

This is a fantastic site that contains a complete text of the book "The Annals of 100 Squadron". The site is an extensive frames site and the URL for the opening page is http://www.patrickwilson.com/RFC.html.

Very cool, thanks Wes!

Both the holster and the pistol appear to be in exceptional condition. Someone has taken care of this rig. What a fine heirloom to pass down through the generations!

Thanks, Wes, for bringing it to our attention.

tacfoley,

He may be a follower of Henry David Thoreau who wrote the teatise "On The Duty Of Civil Disobedience". This work is a very serious development of American social literature which affects political change. Here is a link to it:
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/civ.dis.html

If Mr. Wilson replies that he is in defience of the law, just wish him well and pursue the matter no further. The gov't people will only ruin the gun and wear it out. As it is, the gun is worth quite a sum of money for its history and excellent condition.

Please do not take the position that if you must comply; he must comply. That only supports your oppressive government. [quote]Law never made men a whit more just; and, by means of their respect for it, even the well-disposed are daily made the agents of injustice. <hr></blockquote>

http://www.walden.org/society/Activi...99/HDTdag3.jpg

Henry David Thoreau

I regret that I brought the gun to public attention.
<img src="graemlins/icon501.gif" border="0" alt="[icon501]" />

To those who want full serial numbers given when posting on this forum, perhaps full home address are also of interest.

I'm sorry, why is serial number giving wrong?

I understand that many feel that the secret police may come and look for your weapon (and I am not being sarcastic, many people are more worried than I am and maybe I should be?).

But can you explain why a serial number is bad? To give proper advice on the forum on what a luger is and what its history might be, don't you need a full number?

It makes it easier for the experts to help with that information, and explaining yourself might help me understand more?

You are assuming that the gun was registered to start with. As a great war bring back it might well never have been; I've come across a couple of guns that have been in the same ownership long enough to fall into that category. Personaly I don't advocate breaking the law but would hate to see this pistol confiscated and destroyed, (a likely outcome).

Perhaps he should do as I did and move to the States [img]wink.gif[/img]

I think that you are all presuming that the gun photos are of recent vintage... It might simple be a case of old photographs being used on the website that honors his father... The actual gun may have been sold or exported or turned in years ago...

And as far as bringing anything to public attention, I think that if anyone was responsible for bringing it to public attention, it was Mr Wilson himself by posting it on his website.

Don't carry any guilt about letting us see the photos Wes...

[img]smile.gif[/img] [img]frown.gif[/img]

ED,
I feel that if a gun is in a serial number range, be it 3,4 or 5 digets, and letter suffex if there is one, why is it so important to know the last two numbers unless a list of what specific gun is owned, and by whom, and who is taking all this information down. And who is reading all of this, is it just the few of us that are interested in the guns, or could big brother be logging on. I am sorry if I upset anyone with my comments, lets get back to collecting.

PoliceLuger, not upset at al, this was just something that I wasn't sure about?

Your posts on Police Lugers is always interesting and infomrative and yes, lets talk about collecting, a lot more fun than working out in the yard! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

I agree with "Policeluger" just stick with collectingLet me assure you that "Big Brother" is more than just a bad TV show...

This is a publicly accessible forum with nothing to hide.... you can just bet that law enforcement agencies monitor this website and similar websites for clues to illegal activities involving firearms...

If "they" were a serious threat to the law abiding citizen, then I wouldn't be able to use the quote in my signature below because we wouldn't have the form of government that allows us to exercise our freedom and publicly discuss any issue...

Anyone involved in illegal activities should be cautioned... "THEY" don't have to monitor this website because if you post messages about illegal activities on this forum... the law abiding members of this forum would be standing in line to report you... and that includes me. Illegal activity is NOT welcomed or tolerated here.

Hi,
Interesting to say the least! In the post I made ealier on serial numbers, I find it hard to tell someone what they have if they do not give the serial number, and the complete serial number is welcome in recording data. I feel that if you want information about your Luger, you should give the full serial number. If you are not asking for help or advice, then the serial number is not important. I notice that almost everyone quotes Jan Still's books and his serial number break downs, and just how do you suppose Jan came up with these figures? ..... Because someone was willing to share there serial numbers and someone was willing to record all the different acceptance and test proofs and share it. ... In my opinion, if you want information or help, then expect to give the serial number, and if you are not willing to share this information, then don't ask the questions. -- We are all in big trouble if by putting your serial numbers and your name on this forum is going to lead to loosing your Lugers or some kind of harrassement. Part of collecting is sharing what you are fortunate enough to acquire or see and I for one have no problem with sharing what I have as long as I am treated the same in return, but to just continue to give information and never receive any is not right either. I would say that is being taken advantage of! Part of collecting is serial numbers. I for one am not going to get so paranoid that it ruins my hobby. It is your choice and enough have shared information to write some books and print some articles, and after all, isn't that what makes this hobby so much fun .. the sharing of information, pictures, opinions, and the chance to learn something new? Best wishes -- Bill Munis

[you can just bet that law enforcement agencies monitor this website and similar websites for clues to illegal activities involving firearms.]

John:

Whoa, I just felt like I entered a conspiracy theory zone reading that. LOL! I have had a computer and modem for many years, well back into the middle 80s, and it never ceases to amaze me how many times I’ve read something like that on a BBS or Internet Web site. This sense of paranoia is especially prevalent on sites that cover anything to do with the history of the Third Reich. John, I don’t think there are any government “law enforcement agencies” reading the public messages on this, or any other reasonable site.

Back in the mid 80s there was a notorious case were the Secret Service got serious egg on its face doing this kind of thing. It involved a small gaming company in Austin, Texas called Steve Jackson Games. Many of you may remember this case. You see, SJ Games was writing a sourcebook for its game GURPS (Generic Universal Role-Playing System) called Cyberpunk. Many of the rules in this sourcebook dealt with the computer hacking skill. While writing the draft manuscript, the company took advice and feedback over its message board, called the Illuminati BBS. I’ll never forget this BBS, it was not accessible by the Internet, and only had two phone lines to it. (Ah, the good old days!) Anyway, many people posted public messages on this BBS dealing directly with the most up-to-date programs and tactics for computer hacking of the day. Note that this was just for incorporating realistic data into its new gaming book. Somehow, the Secret Service heard of this, and had one of its agents pose as a kid to get access to this BBS. This sneaky agent nosed around the BBS and saw these postings. Before they know it, the author of the draft Cyberpunk manuscript (Loyd Blankenship) had been arrested and the company raided by federal agents. SJ Games had all of its computers confiscated.

To all of us that use a computer daily, this may sound completely ridiculous, with all the outrageous postings that we see all over the Internet these days. But in 1985 this was all very new. Anyway, SJ Games won a big lawsuit against the Secret Service and the Feds ended up looking like complete idiots because they based their search warrant on what a bunch of kids had posted on a gaming BBS that dealt with an imaginary situation. In the 17 years since then I have not heard were the Feds pursued a case based on “evidence” from a message board. Kids these days, (hell, even adults, LOL!) post all kinds of hogwash all over the Internet, and I’m sure the Fed is super loath to investigate any of it.

Heydrich,

You are wrong. The government continually gathers information on groups that may be associated in the future (their conclusion) with activities that, they perceive, would threaten society. I believe that the government is the entity that is paranoid.

I live in Colorado. The law enforcement agencies in this state and the city of Denver keep vast files on citizens who have assiciation with groups that they feel "may" constitute a threat. This was revealed by the Denver Post and Rocky Mountain News just last month and widely discussed on the radio programs in Denver. The city of Denver has been ordered by the courts to open the files upon request. They are fighting this order through appeal.

Consider this: Denver is not L.A., nor Washington, D.C., nor New York, nor Chicago, etc., etc.

How many times must this type of behavior be revealed before it ceases to be laughable?

Curt, I am inclined to go with this too, I do believe that the internet is "monitored", i.e. that places are checked, but it is hard for me to believe that "we" are being watched daily or weekly or at all.

If you get into survivalism, or worrying about the stock market, then every day you read something that can freak you out, but I seriously believe that we are pretty much left alone, in practically every type of forum, except for "hate" sites and those are kept track of, so there is a the worry about being branded that kind of site and we are a long way from that kind of thing it isn't even funny.

So, yes we can be checked, but I think more than likely we are not checked except in passing. But Wes it doesn't surprise me if gov't agencies don't have dossiers on us, and that I have never liked. [img]eek.gif[/img]

Just my 1 cent. [img]wink.gif[/img]

Wes, I was just referring to the occasional paranoid belief that there is a federal agent reading the public messages on the typical Internet site. The SJ Games case left the Feds loathing to pursue an investigation based on BBS or Web site postings, especially when it could be from a 16-year-old kid who uses a handle. If you guys haven’t noticed, when a person can hide behind an alias, he or she tends to spout off their mouth much more, since they can usually keep their real name hidden. To see what I mean, go to a typical political discussion message board and check out the things people post using a handle. Then imagine you’re a government agent who is looking for some kind of criminal activity there.

However, I have no doubt that some governments keep surveillance records of some people in their jurisdiction. And it would not surprise me if the FBI looked over an extreme hate group’s Web site. But I doubt they are interested in a group of guys who like to discuss things like serial numbers, production figures, and leather holsters.

Many years ago, the magazine “Wired” had a good article on this whole topic. They noticed that when it comes to computer crimes, the government has switched to mainly investigating copy write infringements (i.e. software piracy) and people sending threats via e-mail.

Cheers, [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

-Curt

Heydrich,

Really? How many times a week do you suppose that a gov't agent sits down to his computer and types in the search word "Nazi"? Man, investigators never had it so easy!

Try it yourself. See how many times that the Luger Forum shows up amid all the results.

The Jewish Anti-Defamation League (not a gov't agency) monitors every site that deals with anything that has to do with Hitler and Nazi. They will inform the gov't agencies in a heartbeat.

Check your computer hard drive with software such as PestPatrol and the amount of spyware and trojans on your computer will astonish you.

(LugerForum is not a "typical" internet site.)

To all, I am very sorry if I have upset you with my comments over big brother. Just retired after over 34 years of federal service, I know that a "little egg on the face", or a massive law suit will not stop the goverment and give it cause to think it over, rather it will give it additional resolve to charge ahead. But what ever our feeling ara, lets try, and I will, to get back to Lugers. If I post a question and chose to XX the last two SN#'s, and this bothers someone trying to compile a list of historical production, please just pass me on by.

I give up. If anyone wants to believe there are Jews and federal agents reading their messages and planting programs on their hard drive, that’s fine with me.

YOU ARE ALL UNDER ARREST !! You can bet your bottom dollar that this site is under surveillance, every day. The Feds watch all of these sites to gain info, possibly on illegal stocks, full autos, whatever. If you have any doubt, look at this site, http://psychicspy.com
(really slow to load) he has a program to log everyone that accesses it, let it load and see who is going there. On your search engine type this:
tempest, after you read that try carnivore then echelon. If still not convinced let me know, I have more. This is a nation of parinoia and it is not us. Remember this, KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

Where do I sign up to get someone to pay me for reading this sight everyday?

Herb:

Thanks for the keywords for me to investigate with my search engine. I spent a few hours looking over all kinds of fascinating surveillance related articles. I’d heard of Echelon before, but not Carnivore and Tempest. First off, the link you gave me was of dubious value. (http://psychicspy.com/) This site is an obvious conspiracy theory based Web site. Most of the articles and postings there are preposterous claptrap. Many of the other topics, such as military base manuals, NSA and Area 51 security manuals, offered only a modicum of interest. Although I did like the article on the Aurora aircraft. (I wonder if the Air Force really has that thing?)

Here is some of what I got for Tempest:

[TEMPEST is an official acronym for "Telecommunications Electronics Material Protected From Emanating Spurious Transmissions" and includes technical security countermeasures; standards, and instrumentation, which prevent (or minimize) the exploitation of security vulnerabilities by technical means. TEMPEST is nothing more then a fancy name for protecting against technical surveillance or eavesdropping of UNMODIFIED equipment.

When modern electrical devices operate they generate electromagnetic fields. Digital computers, radio equipment, typewriters, and so on generate massive amounts of electromagnetic signals which if properly intercepted and processed will allow certain amounts of information to be reconstructed based on these "compromising emanations". Basically anything with a microchip, diode, or transistor, gives off these fields.]

This is all very interesting. But the reality of the physics here is that for the emanations from the typical unmodified computer screen (15 or so inches) to be detected and converted at even the mere range of 12 feet away, you would need a receiver about 13 feet by 11 feet across. And outside this “transition zone” you would need a receiver hundreds of feet across. Clearly, if federal agents were spying on us this way, they would have to be no more than 10 feet away.

Here is some of what I got for Carnivore:

[Carnivore is apparently the third generation of online-detection software used by the FBI. While information about the first version has never been disclosed, many believe that it was actually a readily available commercial program called Etherpeek.]

If the FBI can’t get the suspect’s ISP to provide back-up copies of his or her computer records, they can get a court order (they need reasonable cause) to install the Carnivore device directly to the suspect’s ISP connection. It will then capture all of their on-line activities, e-mails, downloads, everything. None of this surprises me. This device only proves the FBI’s intent to go about investigating things like organized crime. And we already knew that anyway. So I don’t see what this has to do with people posting on an average message board like this.

Echelon:

[The ECHELON system, designed and coordinated by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) is one of the world's biggest, most closely held intelligence projects. Unlike many of the Cold War electronic spy systems, ECHELON is designed primarily to gather electronic transmissions from nonmilitary targets: governments, organizations, businesses, and individuals in virtually every country. The system works by indiscriminately intercepting very large quantities of communications and using computers to identify and extract messages of interest from the mass of unwanted ones.]

This surveillance system is well known. But the key phrase here is “extract messages of interest from the mass of unwanted ones.” I’m sure the NSA would consider postings dealing with things like WW1 leather holsters and the history of Georg Luger “unwanted” messages when they are looking for world-wide terrorists. Don’t you think?

Basically, none of this gives credence in my mind to the idea that Jews and federal agents are constantly reading our mundane messages here. Or on any other typical Web site for that matter. I guess you can just call me a skeptic. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

I'm lucky my wife never checks up on me.

She is the nicest, prettest woman alive!

{ [img]biggrin.gif[/img] just in case she is checking up on me [img]biggrin.gif[/img] }

I'm a federal agent, so I guess that Tacfoley and I have confirmed the fears that Jews and federal agents are indeed reading every post. KFS

There goes the neighborhood. Guess I'm going to have to get my 12 by 60 moved again, can't be having any of that sort around here. One trip for the trailer, twelve for the junk cars, three for the dogs, two for the lawn mowers, one for the four wheeler and ammunition. And just when you think you are getting to know somebody....

RK

Oh, Oh, no more posts from the Frankster!! Who would have thought??? <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

I stand corrected. I am now off to start my own conspiracy theory based Web site. LOL. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Heydrich, my intent in providing the psychicspy site was not for anyone to read the info psted there, althought some of it is interesting, it was to show how he has been able to intercept addresses of the government agencies that have visited the site. I found that of interest, apparently those 'visitors' feel that something of interest might be revealed there and are keeping an eye on his info. Tempest is real, it has been around since back in the 70's and it fits inside a regular 'milk' truck and the intercept range is quite surprising. The other two use a system of picking out key words in a message and targeting them, thereby eliminating normal exchanges, much like a search engine does to find what you want to look for. Try http://grc.com find out if you are vulnerable, I bet you are sending info all over the place and are wide open to exploit.

Hey Roadkill, doan fergit the cinder blocks tha junk cars wuz sittin on and thet thar tire swing. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Come on Hugh, show a little respect for the chicken/aramadillo thing. I know some perfectly decent folks, or one anyway, who was run over. Getting run over is easy. Getting over it was the hard part.


RK

[quote]I stand corrected. I am now off to start my own conspiracy theory based Web site. LOL <hr></blockquote>

Heydrich,

A person should believe in little that has not been revealed or documented in the mainstream press. And then only about a third of that will be factual.

I wonder where you have been for the last 40 years or so as time and again it has been headline news that the gov't spies on its own citizens, poisons its citizens (viral & radiation), experiments on its citizens (LSD, syphillus), ad nausium. Did this not happen? I remember (newpaper headlines) that the FBI was keeping files on ordinary citizen in the early '70's while Nixon was in office. Is my understanding of the files presently kept here in Denver (as per newsmedia) merely a daydream?

Who said there was a conspiracy, anyway?! I merely say that it is government as usual.

P.S. I notice that you do not reveal your exact location in Oregon and you do not provide your email address. It appears that you also have a privacy issue!

Providing your personal email address in your signature block is optional.

No email addresses on the Lugerforum (required for registration here) are public information. they are only available to Site Admins for official forum business correspondence with the members.

The Lugerforum offers Private messaging which does not reveal member email addresses. The ability to receive private messaging is also a member option at the time of registration.

Sorry John,

Size 12-D's make me mumble. <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

[img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Wes I get those too, so we must be related, but mine are 11.5's and sometimes they are hard to get out [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Explanations for the chicken crossing the road:

Why did the chicken cross the Road?

ERNEST HEMINGWAY;
To die. In the rain.

PLATO:
For the greater good

ARISTOTLE:
It is the nature of chickens to cross roads.

KARL MARX:
It was a historical inevitability.

RONALD REAGAN
I forget.

CAPTAIN JAMES T. KIRK;
To boldly go where no chicken has gone before.

MARTIN LUTHER KING JNR.;
I dream of a world where all chickens will be free to cross roads
without having their motives called into question.

FREUD; The fact that you are at all concerned that the chicken
crossed the road reveals your underlying sexual insecurity.

DARWIN;
Chickens, over great periods of time, have developed naturally in
such a way that they are now genetically disposed to cross the roads.

EINSTEIN;
Whether the chicken crossed the road or the road moved beneath the
chicken depends on your frame of reference.

BUDDHA;
Asking this question denies your own chicken nature.

RALPH WALDO EMERSON;
The chicken did not cross the road....it transcended it.

COLONEL SANDERS;
I missed one ?