My P08 model 42 is suffering from jams :(
 

Hello folks, My luger is a non-matching Mauser model 42 and I have tried both "over the counter" 9mm including 44-40 Winchester Super-X 200 Gr soft point ammo and steel cased 115 Gr copper FMJ Wolf ammo, and both exhibit the famous jam every few rounds, and the toggle rarely remains open after the last round. <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> Feels like weak ammo. Now, I have heard of P+ ammo that is a bit more powerful, and may add enough boost to avoid the jams and fully work the toggle action. I do not have the tools or know-how to make my own ammo. Can anyone tell me where to find readily and commercially available ammo that can help with this dillema? My MG-42 has far less problems, even with the occacional stuc casings in the breeck and ruptures and broken cases. At least I can fix those problems...

Any suggestions are desperately welcomed. :(

DARIVS ARCHITECTVS

Well, the mag spring appears strong, but I'll find another mag and see if it makes any difference. It seems as if the toggle isn't going back all the way, and it may be that the brech wants to close before the round has a chance to move high enough to get shoved into the breech. It could be multiple factors, but I have to change one at a time in order to solve this. I ask again, can anyone recommend where I can get a slightly stronger ammo to try?

First thing to check is a strong magazine spring and a good magazine. If the round is NOT in position (and it doesnt have long to get that way) when the breech closes it will jam everytime.
If you are getting feeding jams I would look at the magazine first. Try another one in your gun if you have it. (44-40 ammo????? "What the como se llama stuff is this???" )

Are you grasping the Luger with a firm grip and keeping a stiff wrist? Lugers do not like a soft "match target pistol" grip.

Don't use P+ ammo in your Luger, it's too hefty.

Balder

p+ ammo is not the fix to your problem ...they ussually destroys the luger�´s delicate mechanisms !

we have to reload our own low charge rounds for our lugers ...

look somewhere else ...

Hi,

One of the guys at the range had similar problems with his mauser. He was using FXO mags and I gave him my mec-gar magazine to try.

The mec-gar functioned flawlessly with his gun (funny since it doesn't in my 1906 DWM :) .

Some (including me) have had good results with S&B 115gr FMJ.

Okay, if P+ ammo isn't the correct solution, where can I buy good working magazines?

Dariv,

Doug George did have Meg Gar mags for sale at a very reasonable price.
email: deg16@insightbb.com

They can also be found on the auction sites.

You might get a set of three mainsprings from Wolff.
website: www.gunsprings.com

They have a set with one underpower, one regular power, and one extra power. Experiment with these to see which works best with your ammo. I have found that the cheapest Winchester brand that Wallmart carries works great in most of my Lugers. It comes in a white box and is the economy brand in either 115 or 147 gr.

Has this pistol been detail-stripped, cleaned and oiled?

Thanks for the help Hugh, and yes, Saxman, the luger is pristine clean and well oiled right down to the smallest pieces. All the parts are in exceptional condition and even the toggle parts show little to no wear or impact marks associated with lots of shooting. Not bad for a $680.00 shooter! I like the multiple force spring idea. Perhaps a change in spring will allow it to function with over the counter 9mm ammo.

Try another magazine, for sure. When I got my first Luger, a byf 42, I was told by the "experts" to get the ammo with the heaviest bullets, and full metal jackets. I did, but the gun was a single shot, occasionally allowing me to fire two shots before jamming. Then I read an article by Michael Reese suggesting a new magazine. I bought one as well as some other ammo, including a box with a very light soft point. I actually went thru several magazines before a jam occured. Then I got up the nerve to take it apart and I cleaned out all sorts of crud, and I used a good modern lubricant on the moving parts. Even today the gun shoots just about anything I can put thru with no jams. One exception, Corbin ammo. Seems to have trouble with it. I tried six other kinds last time and they all worked 100%. I would never call the Luger's action delicate...

Tricky trying to solve the problem with the ammo change there, Johnny. The heavier bullets would slow round feeding because of inetia while at the same time raising barrel pressure since the bullt would take longer to leave the gun. The resultant would be hard to predict. I ordered two more Meg Gar mags and the three-spring spring set. I'll try the mags first, then the "normal" spring replacement, then the "lighter" spring replacement and see what results I get with WallMart Winchester ammo and/or Wolf ammo. Thanks for the leads all you guys! You make owning a first Luger so much easier!

Darivs,

Watch that Wolf ammo. It is steel case and can give BIG problems. Also, I had an overpressure jam using it in my S&W 3914 (thankfully not in a Luger). I had to open the gun by driving a rod down the barrel and pounding really hard. Very oversized steel case.

Wallymart Winchester in the 100 round packs at $10.70 per box work great in my four 9 mms (including my 2 Lugers).

Okay.. It seems like the WInchester ammo worked a tiny bit more lreliably than Wolf anyhow. Thanks!

Darvis, I'm surprised in all of the above conventional wisdom regarding P08 mags and ammo, that no one has mentioned checking your extrator and ejector. Before I'd go to the trouble of changing recoil springs, I'd change these parts, including the extrator spring, to be sure that they were in spec. It's also possible that your barrel needs a ramp job or that your recoil (S shaped) link is out of spec. TH

I agree with Tom, check the extractor spring, I had one that had a very weak spring and it had ejection and feed problems. A new spring fixed it. From what I have seen it can be a problem but weak mag springs is a more prevalent problem. The recoil link is a new problem. I have not seen that one yet, but I trust the Lugerdoc's advice.

Thor, The recoil link is not a common problem, but if bent out of shape, it will either cause the breech block to come back too hard against the frame causeing damage, or not far enough to pick up a round consistently. Usually only a problem with parts guns or badly done reworks. Tom

Thanks Tom, that certainly makes sense!

Darivs:

Trying a new magazine sounds like a good first step. The object will be to eliminate the variables, one by one, until the problem is cured.

Also, you can forget about a perfectly reliable function with your Luger unless you reload for it.

The ammo commercially available is not long enough for proper feeding in the Luger's step-feed magazine, so don't expect perfect function with this ammo, in any event.

The typical Luger jam, breach jamed over a cartridge half way out of the magazine, can be caused by numerous problems: mag. spring too weak, load too weak, load too strong, improper cartridge length, mainspring too strong, mainspring too weak, and there are more yet.

Typically, unless someone has tried to "fix" the problem by changing or cutting springs, the cartridge OAL seems to be the "usual suspect".

Yours is a mismatched pistol, so you have yet another variable to the equation.

Sieger

Sieger,

Both of my Lugers are 100% if reasonably clean. Even if quite dirty, adding a couple of drops of oil in the frame bolt track restores operation back to 100% for at least another 100 rounds--all with Winchester ammo.

Wow. SO many things to try. Two new mags are on the way, so that step is done. I am wondering how the extractor spring has anything to do with this since the exmpty shells are being ejected darn well and being thrown fairly far. I might want to get an extractor spring for spares and stry swapping it out as aonther test. Thanks for all the help guys! The luger is a multi-variable that will take a lot of tinkering to get working. Typical German design.

Nuts.. I hit the "add reply" button twice. I wasted a few precious bits on your hard drive.

[[Normally I would delete it, but enjoyed your remarks :D Ed}}

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS:
<strong>Wow. SO many things to try. Two new mags are on the way, so that step is done. I am wondering how the extractor spring has anything to do with this since the exmpty shells are being ejected darn well and being thrown fairly far. I might want to get an extractor spring for spares and stry swapping it out as aonther test. Thanks for all the help guys! The luger is a multi-variable that will take a lot of tinkering to get working. Typical German design.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">This is a pretty good analogy.

I see the Luger as a Porsche 928S and the Browning 1911 as an Impala SS. Both are fast, but one is a lot harder to get running properly.

Sieger

Well guys, my problems are ALMOST solved. I tried the new mags and the last round left the toggle open about half the time. So, I tried shooting one round from a mag with a stiff armed grip and a loose armed grip. The loose grip never kept the toggle back and the stiffer grip posture allowed the toggle to stay back about 70% of the time. This tells me I almost have it licked. Time to adjust the next variable, and it will work perfectly. All this was done using Wolf ammo. So, should I try replacing the main spring, or try Winchester ammo? I suppose it's easier to get some Winchester ammo and test run it first. Do you guys know whether or not Wolf ammo is weaker or stronger than average. This P08 is right on the verge of being tuned up.

Darivs, John Martz SPECIFICALLY recommends using Winchester ammunition, because in his experience their primer placement is such to preclude breech/bolt damage. I usually use the 115gr Walmart 100-round Value-Pack; quality is excellent, as is the price. I'm not a big fan of Wolf-I've had problems with it, I'm not real comfortable in the certainty of the steel cases smoothly extracting, and the stuff has a really obnoxious odor.

Also, incidentally, my hold-open rarely works with the Walmart ammo-I think because it's slightly lower power that the standard 9mm loading. I really don't worry about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by JonS/42:
<strong>Darivs, John Martz SPECIFICALLY recommends using Winchester ammunition, because in his experience their primer placement is such to preclude breech/bolt damage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Dear Jon:

John Martz is certainly an expert on the Parabellum System, but this is an interesting, yet, very confusing, comment. Perhaps John just adjusts his fine handmade pistols to function best with Winchester ammo.

How could Winchester be placing them differently than, let's say, Remington? Under 33,000 to 35,000 pounds of pressure, any primer will move to the rear.

Sieger

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS:
<strong>Do you guys know whether or not Wolf ammo is weaker or stronger than average. This P08 is right on the verge of being tuned up.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hi:

I won't shoot their stuff in any of my guns. I have found it vastly underpowered in my rifles and prone to malfunctions, and smokey, in my pistols.

If you will not be reloading for your pistol, you might try a box of Remington 124gr. FMJ.

Sieger

FWIW Remington does nothing but jam in my Lugers, same with Speer.

My best luck is with Walmart Winchester, Sellier & Bellot, and CCI Blazer.

The indoor range I shoot at has banned Wolf.

--Dwight

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dwight Gruber:
<strong>FWIW Remington does nothing but jam in my Lugers, same with Speer.

My best luck is with Walmart Winchester, Sellier & Bellot, and CCI Blazer.

The indoor range I shoot at has banned Wolf.

--Dwight</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Dwight:

I gave up on the commercial stuff about 25 years ago. I handload everything that I shoot through my Lugers, and they all work perfectly, just like they were designed to.

What is a reliable load? To me, it is one that can be fired 1,000 times without a malfunction. I don't think there is any commercial ammo currently available that will perform to that standard. Even with the perfect load, commercial ammo is loaded just too short to properly feed through the clip.

Sieger

It's pretty sad that commercial ammo is so light. How expensive is a reloading setup or can I buy appropriately loaded ammo from one of you guys?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by DARIVS ARCHITECTVS:
<strong>It's pretty sad that commercial ammo is so light. How expensive is a reloading setup or can I buy appropriately loaded ammo from one of you guys?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Darivs, it's illegal to sell reloaded ammo to anyone unless the reloader has a manufacturer's license. You can invest a little - or a lot - in a reloading setup. If you decide to go that way (and it's the best way IMO) you'll want to do a good bit of research before buying anything. Everything from a single stage press to a progressive reloader will do fine. You have to decide how serious you want to get.

John Martz told me he like Winchester ammo because he thought the primers were thicker than the rest.
Lonnie

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Lonnie Zimmerman:
<strong>John Martz told me he like Winchester ammo because he thought the primers were thicker than the rest.
Lonnie</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Lonnie:

This would be real easy to check.

I have always heared that CCI made the "hardest" primers.

Sometimes, a Luger will pierce a soft primer(a Remington for instance). You have to pay a little attention to the condition of the very tip of the firing pin.

Sieger

Hi guys, I have a Luger that was jamming almost every time, another mag worked fine so obviously it was the mag. Now get this......... a gun smith I know told me to close up the throat (where the bullet rest) a little on the offending mag. I measured them both with some calipers, the bad one was open wider. I close it up to match the good one only .010 of an inch. It was like magic, I couldn't beleive it. That mag never jammed again. It was letting the bullet ride a little to high so when the bolt slammed it forward it was hitting at the top of the chamber. Rarely is it the ammo, usually something with the mag. Hope this helps someone, Dipp

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Dipp:
<strong>Hi guys, I have a Luger that was jamming almost every time, another mag worked fine so obviously it was the mag. Now get this......... a gun smith I know told me to close up the throat (where the bullet rest) a little on the offending mag. I measured them both with some calipers, the bad one was open wider. I close it up to match the good one only .010 of an inch.
It was like magic, I couldn't beleive it. That mag never jammed again. It was letting the bullet ride a little to high so when the bolt slammed it forward it was hitting at the top of the chamber. Rarely is it the ammo, usually something with the mag. Hope this helps someone, Dipp</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Dipp:

I'm glad that finding that your magazine was not in spec. cured your problem. It must have been off by quite a bit. Over the years, magazines have been blamed for quite a few Luger problems.

My Lugers will not give reliable function with any magazine with ammo that is not in spec. With ammo in spec. I have fired 1,000 rounds straight without any malfunction.

Sieger

Guys,

I had a similar experience with my 9 mm Colt 1911. I was having double feeds and lots of crazy malfunctions with one magazine. Also, sometimes the slide wouldn't lock back when empty with that magazine. Lots of examination showed that the top round in that magazine had a lot of side play at the nose while there was very little side movement in other magazines. I squeezed the top front of this magazine with pliers until it was very snug against the follower. This eliminated the side play in the top round and resulted in perfect function for the last few hundred rounds.