Help Identifying a "Blank: Luger?
 

I collect Dutch Lugers and recently picked one up that I thought was Dutch based on the presence of a brass side plate. On closer inspection, I see no "RUST" marked safety, no "GELADEN" on the extractor, no acceptance marks, not even a manufacturer's identification. The style of the brass plate, the lettering font, and the letters themselves also don't appear to reflect Dutch usage. The only markings are a serial no 5 that appears in quite a few places. Does anyone have any thoughts on what this pistol might be all about?

Can we see the left side, too?
Sideplate and sear.
Are there any other numbered parts ? (inside ?)

Very curious P.08, I think, but I need to see more details.

Maybe a lunch box special:nono:

The brass unit plate looks nothing like other examples I've observed. Pretty sure it's been renumbered. The "5" on the rear of the toggle and upper frame looks new.

G2

Ghost gun - post WW-1 ??

Thanks, gents. I know this thing looks pretty suss, but I wonder where one would find all these unnumbered parts, and how much effort someone would go to to make a fake Dutch(?) Luger? I hate to admit that I don't even know what a sear is, but I will take some more photos of the internals in a day or two. I do know that the grips (which are tight as can be) are stamped with the number 5 on the inside surface as well.

There's a 5 on the underside of the barrel, but no other proof markings. No date on the frame.

Here's the top of the barrel.

Or maybe here. I'm pretty new to this.

I agree with Gunnertwo. I have never seen a Dutch plate like that one. Way to big. Bill

Additional Images
 

Let me start by saying thank you to those who took the time to take a look at the earlier posting. I am a first time user of this forum and was amazed to see that people were so willing to look at this random pistol and give me their thoughts. I very much appreciate it.

I have no idea if this will help, but I did some disassembly and photographed a few internal details. The frame has significant corrosion pitting and seems out of step with the near flawless finish of most of the remaining parts. I am just baffled that someone might go to the trouble of creating a low serial number knockoff without trying for a more high value version.

The only aberrant numbers I see are on the housing for the firing pin (maybe a 68?). There are some random letters low on the magazine housing portion of the frame, and some symbols on the underside of the frame near the barrel.

Thank you all again for your input.

Add-On Photo Set 1

Add-On Photo Set 2.

And just a couple more.

Nice close-ups!
I'm impressed with how many of the parts are numbered.
Matching numbered grips !!! Wow, that is cool.

That detail tends to rule out a "ghost gun" or factory sneak.
But it's purpose is still unclear to me.

I don't think anyone was trying to fake a Dutch luger, either.

Yeah, the only thing I've found with an off number is the firing pin. It has a 68 stamp. Kind of odd that it was replaced since the gun barely appears to have been fired. Just one more mystery as to what the purpose of this particular build was.

A couple of curiosity questions...

On a genuine Dutch Luger, how is the brass plate affixed to the side of the pistol? Glue? Solder?

And, although the brass plate on this one is too big, was the same attachment method used as seen on a Dutch Luger?

On an original Dutch it is solder. On this gun who knows?..maybe super glue? :)

...velcro... ?

On an original Dutch it is solder. On this gun who knows?..maybe super glue? :)
The very question I was about to ask!The corners of the plate on an original would be rounded...

How about a picture of actual Dutch plate

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dutch+luge...=v248-1&ia=web


Aldo, If you google search dozens of examples appear

An original. I have a couple of better examples but I already had this photo. It normally would be a straight-sided rectangle with rounded corners, but the heavily struck "15" distorted it.
Attachment 89225

It has been reblued over pits, so who really knows? It's a pretty good job, too, that didn't involve buffing the bejeepers out of it.

The font style is what I'd expect to see on a Mauser Luger. There is something weird going on with how the front of the barrel extension is proud of the frame: https://forum.lugerforum.com/attachm...1&d=1728680584 Frankenluger?

David,

Good observation about the receiver being proud of the frame.

There is also a cut in the receiver, just behind the barrel, visible on both sides, that would correspond with the correct length of the receiver. I have remained quiet regarding this Luger because I am not an expert. However, my opinion is that the "5" stamped on parts, some in odd locations (sear bar, double stamp on side plate, inside front toggle link), is a red herring. I think that the gun was assembled from partly unfinished/rejected parts - a "lunch box special."

KFS

That is an incredibly cool example. The Btzg stands for "Buitenzorg", but I have not seen the "M.L." initials together (only separately for Southern/Eastern (M) and Western (L) Borneo, respectively). There are Military Police abbreviations that start with M.X. (with X running from A through G), but this one is unique. Best guess: Military Police Buitenzorg, with no other examples described (in Martens & DeVries, anyway). Thank you for posting.

Your best guess is the same as mine, a military police pistol from Buitenzorg. This is a DWM 1906 Dutch Luger in 9mm. Reworked in 1914 by DWM. Bluing is about 95%. Straw is about 50%. It is remarkable, given the environment where it was employed, that this Luger has survived in such a nice condition.
Buitenzorg was the Colonial Era name for what is now the modern city of Bogor in Java. Governor-General van Imhoff is credited with its discovery in 1745. He built a large country estate which he named Buitenzorg ('Without a Care'), but it was not until 1811 that it was first used as a country residence by Sir Stamford Raffles, during the British interregnum, and not until many years later that Bogor became the semi-official capital. Bogor has a nickname: the 'City of Rain'. Bogor has probably the highest annual rainfall in Java and is credited with a record 322 thunderstorms a year.

The only "effort" anyone has gone to here to make a fake Dutch Luger is to create and affix the brass unit plate. Not really difficult at all.

--Dwight