Your Favorite P-08 Luger
 

Would Like to know every ones favorites to find out the most popular my personal favorite is the black widow.

First Variation K Date S/42 Mauser

My favorite Lugers are the Imperial's. Particularly the 1900 and 1906 commercials. Incredible fit and finish, no others can compare IMHO! <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> http://www.georgealarm.com/~dgeorge/1906a.JPG

It hard for me to to decide which of my small collection of Lugers that I like the most. As a collector, I have many which have interesting and fun stories associated with them. As an investor, I have a few whose value has appreciated a lot and that pleases me.

But my favorite has to be a chamber dated 1914 DWM artillery (SN 1339). I have three of these rare artilleries and two of them are beauties with matching mags. But my favorite one is a Wiemar dipped one that I bought with repro grips and no magazine. OK, so its been dipped in typically Wiemar black bluing. But there was no metal removed during the rebluing process. Its all, otherwise, original, metal wise.

The first order of day was to get some good grips on it. First, I got some 'Red Nine' grips for it. That made it look very good. Then I found some 'trench art' grips for it. That made it look even better and said something about that era. Then I searched for a nice magazine for it. I found a neat type one Trommel snail drum magazine. Super cool. Now I have to find THE stock for it.

I have some real nice Lugers. But when I have someone who knows something about Lugers, I whip this gun on them first. Then build up their excitment with the rest of my treasures.
Big Norm :D

My favorite is always the last one I acquired!! :D

That K date you have is pretty sweet though! Aint it Frank?

A no brainer..my '04 Navy...or my K-date Navy...or my '06 Naval Zepp rig...sheesh, is this a trick question?
Tom A.

My favorite is a 'like new' condition , totally matching with two matching magazines, proper take down tool, and original perfect holster with the toggle stamped SPANDAU and the frame having the correct R/C stamp. Sure wish I had several of em'.

In Herb's shadow, how about a 1910 dated Erfurt, in mint condition, with matching clip and holster. I'd even take it with ONLY one matching clip!

I like Tacfoley's answer. My favorite is my '36 Mauser reblued shooter (sorry Ted), all matching with great grips reworked by Hugh. Now that it's broken in, it works 100% on Wallymart ammo for 300+ rounds without cleaning and shoots 1-1.5" groups just a tad high at 25 yards. I wouldn't trade this gun for the rarest non functioning Luger relic (a shooter's viewpoint).

Byf 41 "Black Widow" Sleek, all-black, beautiful. The last version of the Luger (as issued to German military forces). The then-modern and cost-effective to manufacture Bakelite grips that it was issued with add to anachranism that the gun became.

The Third Reich, hampered by it's idealogy that celebrated the guild, and craftsman manufacturing techniques, contradicted the objective needs of a modern military (thus handicapping it). The P38 was a far superior military handgun - double action, cheaper and easier to manufacture and more reliable in war conditions yet the Reich continued to manufacture the expensive, labor-intensive P08. The Luger is more of a high-end target shooter's firearm than a soldier's sidearm. The K98 rifle is another example of the irrational nostalgia for traditional, out-dated weapons the Germans harbored. What a contradiction: the modern blitzkreig coupled with antiquated and expensive small arms. I am so happy that the Nazis with their hateful ideology made enough errors to lose the war and allow us to collect their stuff and not the other way around. My Black Widow is my favorite because it represents so much of this history to me. MM

Seems like theres a varioty of favorites around here.

My favorite? You mean I can only have just one? I like Third Reich Lugers. I have a byf black widow and a 1938 s/42. I would like to add to my collection a Persian Artillery and one day a 1902 carbine in 9mm and a Thor restoration 1902 in 9mm... But pretty much any luger that isn't rusty, pitted, mismatched or bubba buffed and blued is my favorite. Though some of these pimp guns that have been showing up on this board of late have me wondering if my black widow wouldn't look good with platinum plating, gold accents and mother of pearl grips...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by trigger643:
<strong>Though some of these pimp guns that have been showing up on this board of late have me wondering if my black widow wouldn't look good with platinum plating, gold accents and mother of pearl grips...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hey if that floats your boat! :D yuck, BTW

And if maybe we could see pictures, detailed ones and a bit of history on these favorite guns y'all are so proud of, it'd make my almost week! Cuz, next week, I have the feeling I'll see a couple of guns at the rEno Show! :)

Ed

Early comercial and contract Lugers

Russ <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

My favorite is my 1938 Mauser S/42; it was a WWII Russian capture piece stored for over 50 years in a Soviet arms storage facility in the Ukraine, discovered after the Russian withdrawal. One of 1400 hand-picked by a US importer invited in, it was arsenal-refinished (I'm imagining in the former DDR), import-stamped and brought to the US. All matching parts, except for the grips and magazine. There was a minor dent in the left side of the receiver-an imaginative person would think "battle damage;" the former Army officer in me thinks "PFC with a crowbar." Had many pleasant talks with John Martz about it-I told him my intention was to shoot it in steel plate matches, and wouldn't it be fun to have a 60 year old weapon take on some of the latest high-tech wonders? John gleefully got into the project, and what we decided to do was to have fun, and make a beautiful, highly functional weapon(what Thor would term a "Total Doll Job"), but one where asthetics would be given an upper hand over total historical accuracy. Accordingly, John TOTALLY went through the gun mechanically, removed the dent in the receiver, performed an action job, and made sure that everything was up to snuff. It then went to Charles Danner in Tennessee for a hot rust blueing, small-parts strawing, and charcoal blueing on several other small parts. George Sarkissian hand carved the grips out of English Presentation Circassian walnut, hand checkered English Circassian walnut, with a smooth border in the style of the 1898/99 Borchardt-Luger Transition model. Jerry Burney supplied a reproduction of the German military lanyard, and El Paso Saddlery provided a replica of the holster made for the 1900 US military trials of the Luger, lined to protect the finish (I also have one of the German military reproduction holsters, but prefer the El Paso holster)I have a absolute fun time shooting it in our league steel plate matches; on Wednesday, for example, I successfully campaigned against Kimbers, Glocks, S&W Performance Center revolvers, etc. (and no, I didn't win(held my own for quite a while though), but someday...After several thousand rounds, the only repairs needed have been replacement of the L-shaped spring that retains the take-down lever, and my rear toggle piece developed a hairline crack, so John replaced it out...and that's been about it. Despite some minor inner pitting in the grooves, I decided to keep the original barrel-John gave it a safe bill of health, and the lands are crisp and clean...if it isn't broken, why fix it? Whenever I shoot it, there's a very high level of spectator interest to say the least...especially when I win a heat! For cleaning, I use Hoppe's #9 or Shooter's Choice; for lubrication I use Tetra or FP-10; for awhile, I used Tetra Grease or TW-25B grease on reciprocating parts, but decided that it was generally unnecessary. Okay, now that I've bored everybody....

You described it to us nicely, but how about some pictures???

My favorite Byf 42 rig in cea42 holster with waa135 tool. I prefer the wood grips. http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Picture004.jpg

I suggest to have a look at my web site to know what is my favourite Luger!
Ciao

I do have a few favorites, but there is one that is special to me! It was acquired a long time ago, has seen quite some use...and is associated with war stories that issued those to SS Units...

BYF 42 Ser. 4527h BLACK WIDOW

kidvett <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/42BlkWdSS.jpg

Probably not my favorite, but one of my most interesting: A 1914 DWM military Luger WITHOUT a stock lug. No, it has not been ground off.

Many of the collectors with whom I have spoken have never even heard of a 1914 w/o stock lug, but it is clearly documented in Still's book "Imperial Lugers" along with a picture of an example.

The one I have is not in great condition, but it is a completely honest Luger which has never been boosted or altered as far as I can tell.

Because this model is fairly rare, I thought about having it restored, but a couple of experienced collectors convinced me to leave it in its natural state. Guess I'll do that.

Luke

They say you never forget your first, and although this is not my best one of few I have, it is the first. Dug this in a drained lake in the former Czechoslovakia years ago. Right off I was fascinated how well it was preserved, especially the handles. It got me into P08 collecting then and there, sold much of my militaria collection to finance my future purchases. It's just one of my favorites now. I would love to know what make this is, but no markings are decipherable. The next Spring I went back, dug out a P38 along with this magazine, which still has rounds in it. Not beautiful, but it was my first, and it's great to display under glass legally in this country. http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/dugp08.JPG <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

Great picture and story, Josef ! Thanks.

Luke

Josef,

Check the profile of the back of the frame. From the photo it looks like it may have the Mauser "hump", instead of being perfectly vertical. If so, it narrows down the origin of your delightful relic quite a bit.

--Dwight

My favorite P08? I only have two and I like them both. The favorite I guess would be my 42-42 Mauser. Made out 3 Mauser lugers(judging the matching #'s on the subassemblys), this pistol is a perfect shooter. Mechanicly good as new, bright bore, reblued in the best communest style. Jam free and not ammo picky, always locks back the toggle. Its reliability has astounded me.

Seems as if the luger has different variations likeness to them you always find your favorite even though it might not beyour best.

I'd have to choose my Erfurt "Commercial" Luger in .30 caliber. It was obtained in a trade and was first owned by my father. It's a completely matching pistol except for the barrel which is 3 7/8 inch. The date was also removed during the rework which was nicely done. It has been completely reliable and my father realy liked it. Now it has passed to me. I have a fondness for the 7.65 cartridge and the family connection makes this one special.

1940 42 Mauser.
It shoots reliable.
It shoots in one hole at 25 yards.
No jams, ever, with Gecco, Federal, Winchester 9mm Hardball or Silvertips.
Bore is unsightfully pitted, but more accurate than any other handgun I have owned.
The forum director put my report about reliability and function and accuracy on some other "general forum."
If you don't see this message on this WWII Luger Forum, I'll know why.

&gt;&gt;The Luger is more of a high-end target shooter's firearm than a soldier's sidearm. The K98 rifle is another example of the irrational nostalgia for traditional, out-dated weapons the Germans harbored. What a contradiction: the modern blitzkreig coupled with antiquated and expensive small arms.&lt;&lt;

It is very important to remember that the German Nazis were the most hopeless romantics of the 20th century. Their chosen weapons reflected this. Look at the endemic romantic nature of the leading National Socialists: They loved to wear swords and daggers, as well as march around in capes while bearing medieval banners. Goering once showed up for a staff meeting dressed as a medieval warrior bearing a spear. They also had to of been the most hardcore conservatives of the century, pining for the time of the romantic knights and overlords of Medieval Europe. Even with modern machinery available, they insisted that the laborers of the Autobahn for the first year used “good old fashioned manual labor” such as with picks and shovels. I have often speculated that this is one of the reasons that the Nazis were so messed up in the head: they were romantic fools who lived in another age.

Doubs,
You are so lucky to have a Luger that was owned by your father. I do not have that inheritance, but my dad took me to buy my first Luger. It has long since gone the way of trades that I wish I could take back, but the memories remain.

I have a hard time picking out my favorite Luger since all early Lugers possess a quality that surpass most (I almost said "any") modern day firearm. All grip safety Lugers are of special interest to me, so I guess my favorite would be the 1902 "Fat Barrel" American Eagle, but it is followed very closely by the 1900 US Test American Eagle, the 1902 Carbine, the early 1900 Swiss with unrelieved frame and flat button magazine, and the 1908 Luger in all its variations...etc, etc.

I am far too fond of all early Lugers to narrow down my favorites, so I guess I have to be like tacfoley and say that any Luger that goes BANG is my favorite...just as long as it was not made after 1918. :)

Ron, the few firearms I inherited from my father are special and will always be so to me. Pop liked the .30 caliber Lugers and owned several over his lifetime.... including a Stoeger "Loaded" and "Safe" model. Of them all, he especially liked the 1906's 4 3/4" tapered barrel and often said that it was his favorite model. I tend to agree.

When you walk into a display and your eyes automaticly go to one gun I have to consider it to be my favorite; 1902 Carbine.
Regards Ken D

Heydrich,
I think that you missed a lot in your history lessons. Germany was the economic power of the early 1900's. It surpassed Britian sometime around 1905. At the end of WW1, anything of value was stripped from Germany by the victorious allies.

Hitler, inspite all his unquestioned evilness, did do some good things in his early years. The Autobaun was one of them. The idea was not so much to build a modern road but rather to put people to work. Maybe you read about the Great Depression? President Roosevelt had the same idea when he built the Hoover Dam. Actually, if it was not for WW2, the suffering of the world during the Great Depression would have lasted longer than it did. Unemployment was still around 14% in America in 1940 inspite of two years of military build up in anticipation of the war.

Peoples of Europe all have a greater appreciation for history than the typical American. You sound like the world began with cowboys and indians. As far as the Midievil rememberances go, the next time that you have the TV on, turn off the cartoons and look at other channels. England, Italy as well as Canada still enjoy the costumes of that various eras along with other countries. Capes, swords and plumed military hats are still worn in certain South American and European countries on certain occasions. American marine officers still wear swords and capes on certain occasions. All American military branches have impressive fancy dress uniforms that they wear on special occasions.

The Luger and the K98 were, and still are, splendid weapons. The main reason that the Luger was used in WW2 was that the Germans had warehouses filled with them. The Luger was obsoleted around 1938-9 by a better weapon called the P-38. Maybe you heard of it? But a war and higher priorities interfered with the necessary mass production. Maybe you didn't know, but the American military and maybe the British military were using bolt action rifles at the beginning of WW2.
Big Norm

Big Norm is totally correct. The German military was in the process of modernization, but the events precipitated by Hitler hindered the total replacement of the Luger, which was considered obsolete.
The National Socialists did not let tradition hinder them. They ushered the world into the modern age.

I agree with Norm on almost all points. Our Army did adopt the Garand in 1936 while the Marines insisted on keeping their version of the 1903 Springfield. The Marines learned on Guadalcanal that the Garand was the better battle rifle and moved swiftly to replace the '03. In the book "Shots Fired in Anger" (an excellent book, BTW) the author points out that the Garand proved to be the more reliable weapon and if the gas system failed could be manually operated more quickly than the bolt of an '03. The soldiers in the Philippines and on Wake Island were armed with the '03 rifle when the war broke out so it's true that many US servicemen entered the war with bolt actions but the Garand quickly became the standard. We were the only major power to use semi-automatic rifles as standard issue and it gave us a tremendous advantage in a fight.

The English began the war with the #1 Mk III rifle and slowly replaced it with the #4 rifle which was officially adopted in 1939.

Have to disagree with Big Norm, Doubs, and Wes. First Doubs, what about the millions of SVT-38s and SVT-40s that were issued by the "major power" USSR during the war?

Concerning Nazi (read Hitler) anti-modernist romanticism and its interference with industrial mondernization, I refer to the extensive writings of the architech of war-time armaments industrialization, Albert Speer and his view of Hitler's antimodernization:

"...antimodernity prevented Hitler from approaching victory: thatched roofs, old-fashioned ideas about artisan manufacture, division of the land into individual farms - all these things were contrary to the rational exploitation of German production not only in practice but far more in their ideolgical background. When I began my work as armaments minister in 1942, I kept coming up against such hinderences more and more... romantic ideology [prevented women from working]in the armaments industry during the war...Hitler opposed the tommy gun because he said it made soldiers cowardly and made close combat impossible...[he] rejected the jet fighter because he said its extreme speed was an obstacle to fighting..distruted attempts at developing an atom bomb by means of nuclear fission ...[Hitler called such efforts in private conversation] a spawn of Jewish pseudoscience. ["Infilration", Albert Speer,1985 Macmillan, pg 83]

Yes, I would say the Nazi's romanticism and antimodernism was a hinderence and the continued manufacture of the Luger in 41 &42 proof of that. mm

Doubs,
you are right, the Garand gave us a great advantage in the war. But Roosevelt was interested in defeating Hitler first and then the Japanese. So the army got the Garand first. Then the marines in the Pacific. Don't think that for a moment the marines were happy with this situation.

MM,
you are correct that Hitler was a romantic. But the German army had a light weight machine gun that was very flexible. Hitler felt that the foot soldier would waste too much ammo if he had a semi auto rifle. The German semi auto was developed in secret and arrived too late to make a difference. But when Hilter saw the finished product, he jumped on it. The jet was initially developed as a medium range bomber. Hitler wanted a fighter plane to support his fast moving tank warfare which was a novel idea at the beginning of the war. So Hitler stalled until the jet fighter was developed much later and too late.

Somehow we have to divide the war into two parts. The first of which were great successes by the German army and Hitlers gambling and the second part where Hitler was a little crazy and very irrational. Compound the second part with the meddling of Hitlers friend, the coke headed Gorring, and you get defeat as well as Spears late war impression of Hitler. To attempt to blend these two parts can lead to a misinterpretation of the extent of Hitlers romanticizm.

I believe that the dividing line between these two parts was the attempted assasination in, I think but may be wrong, the Wolfs Layer. This is where the German army tried, unsuccessfully, to blow him up during a staff meeting. After that, Hitler was totally screwed up. But the Germans were still frightened of him.
Big Norm

Big Norm,
Excellent synopsis. I have a point and a question.

Point: I think Hitler started out a little crazy and then got a lot crazy during the second part of the war. I do realize that one man's crazy is another man's genius, but in my opinion Hitler began his political career as a beneficial megalomaniac. At the outset, he did have the best interests of greater Germany in mind. As the war progressed and his megalomania grew increasingly introverted, his decisions grew ever more irrational and disastrous. In any case, the man was sick from the get-go.

Question: Regarding the Marine transition to the Garand, the oral tradition passed to me by numerous WWII vets (NONE of them were Pacific Marines, however) was that the Marines did not want the Garand until they witnessed its effectiveness in battle. The stated reason for this is that Marine brass valued marksmanship and bought into the whole wasting ammo philosophy. Do you know if any Marine brass lobbied for the Garand prior to Guadalcanal?

Jack

Not to quible, but I wouldn't say it was Roosevelt that wanted the European war over faster, it was Churchill, there were several meetings and it was decided that Germany would be taken over first, and Japan would be contained, then defeated.

Ed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by mm:
<strong>Have to disagree with Big Norm, Doubs, and Wes. First Doubs, what about the millions of SVT-38s and SVT-40s that were issued by the "major power" USSR during the war? mm</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The standard issue rifle for the Soviet army was the Moisin-Nagant in all of it's variations. The SVT-38 & 40 were never issued in the numbers you suggest nor did they ever supplant the MN's as the Garand did the Springfield. In fact, the SVT's proved to be less than reliable under battlefield conditions which no doubt limited their issue. The first truly successful semi-auto rifle issued by the Soviets was the SKS which saw very limited action at the end of the war and became obsolete in the early 1950's when the AK-47 started replacing almost everything else.