1941 byf
 

Sorry I am unable to post pics, but have a question about a recent purchase. landed a very nice 41 BYF rig. Gun is all matching, except for the holdopen which has an s/42 on it. Serial number 963 with no suffix. The question is about the mags. They are aluminum based, pin through the middle, fxo stick eagle 37. The mag bottoms have only 963 and numbered 1 and 2. no other marks on the bottom of the mag. I thought these were police mags, but the gun has no sear safety on it. Thanks. M. Holt

In addition have capture papers with the pistol showing where a S/Sgt. was authorized to bring home:
1 german pistol P.38 #5543
1 luger pistol #963
1 german pr binoculars

BYF42,
The â??S/42â?�marked hold open is most likely an arsenal replacement.

The generic â??S/42â?� was stamped on arsenal replacement parts for K Date, G Date, â??36, â??37,â??38, and â??39 Mauser series

I have seen police guns without a sear safety. They are "rare", I don't know if you'd say more valauble, but they are rarer.

The guess is that they were issued to the police and were not modified, either because of time constraints, or they were issued in a part of germany or time frame that the sear safety was not added.

They could also be bogus mags...

Can you scan in the pictures with a scanner, or have a friend take digital etc?

Ed

Ed,
I have access to a digital camera, but am unable to download pics onto the forum. I have disc's with pics of black widow repro grips I posted about in another section of this forum, as well as pics of a 1938 rig I picked up awhile back. I just hate to always bug someone to post the pics. The problem is old computer I believe.
Mike

Well, actually, posting the pictures shouldn't make any difference in how old the comptuer is. More than likely it is the size of your intial photos.

Send them to me and I'll post them.

:)

Ed

Ed,
I figured it out, but thanks for offering. Will have pics of the gun and mags as soon as I put my mitts on the digital camera again.

Mike

Mike, If the size of the numbers on your FXO mags is the same size & style as the serials on the front of the frame, chances are they are correct WW2 mags. If the digits on the mags are much larger, they are probably renumbered, possibily by the DDR. Th

Here are the mag pictures, as well as some others of the guns.

[click on the â??thumbnailsâ?? to see the photos full size - Admin-JS]

<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/2004_0830guns0015.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/2004_0830guns0015.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/2004_0830guns0016.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/2004_0830guns0016.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/2004_0830guns0019.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/2004_0830guns0019.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>
<a href="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/2004_0830guns0021.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://forums.lugerforum.com/lfupload/2004_0830guns0021.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

IMHO These mags have definitely been renumbered

Richie, I actually dislike the numbering on the frame worse than the mags? The mags are essentially the same. I would like an even closer, larger more pixels of the mags, so I could blow them up, I can't tell if they are re-stamped or if there is just a marking or two by the numbers?

Since there is "capture papers" and they look current to the time frame, they might be renumbered by the police pre-WW2?

Ed

I am curious as to whether or not the pistol has been drilled for a sear safety.

Thanks,
SteveM

Where would it be drilled at for a sear safety?

Just above and to the rear of the sideplate. I don't have a pic handy to post. Maybe one of the other members will have one..

SteveM

It is the top bar at the top of the screen above the middle 39.

http://gallery.rennlist.com/lugergal...ce_parts_color

I checked, its not drilled.

M. Holt

It just did not make sense to me to have a 41 byf with no sear safety, and have police type mags. The gun as far as I can tell is right as rain, but the mags were the catch. The good thing is it was a trade, a fella had to have something I wanted to get rid of, so I am not into it deep at all.

Mike, your 41 byf looks like a legit Luger. Just get a "fxo" black plastic bottom magazine and you'll be all set with the proper magazine for your new toy. Are the waffenamt marks both E/655?

Frank, The waffenamt marks are E/135's. I guess my question is could those mags be legit? Under a magnifying glass I cannot see anything out of place on the mag bottoms. Maybe its just wishful thinking on my part.

Mike

The 9 sure looks odd on the frame picture...

Mike, the 963 no suffix is the earliest double E/135 Luger I have recorded.

I can't say for sure the magazines are not correct!! The numbers on the left magazine botton are not in line. The location of the magazine number (1 and 2) are not in the same placement. This would give rise to some question about the numbering.

Did you buy it directly from a Vets family,or from a dealer??.....

It went from relative of deceased, to a guy whom I have traded with several times before, to me.

I have no doubt on his integrity regarding the rig, but who all had it in the family I have no idea. Would they have known to fake the mags, and go to that much trouble? Nothing surprises me anymore. The guy I traded with was stumped on it. Brought it to my attention, and agreed that it just did not make any sense.

Mike

You might want to take a couple of pictures of the sides of the magazine bases to see how they are pinned and what these rivots look like on both sides.

Have byf 41 2766 no suffix that has two E/655 acceptance marks. Has two matching aluminium base fxo magazines, but the serial numbers are smaller than the above mentioned piece and the extra has a + sign.

In my opinion it would be highly unlikely for a byf 41 military gun to have police magazines without the gun having a sear safety. In 1941, Mauser Banner police Lugers all had sear safeties. I have, and have seen police Lugers which had two matching magazines which were not marked one and two, but never military Lugers marked with police magazines.

Bill