Are There Holes In Both Carbine Stocks
 

and why! ARE THEY IN BOTH?? 1902 AND 1920 MODELS~ ERIC~PLEASE!

I have had years to ponder these holes and there obviously no reason to lighten the stock by a few ounces! I just need to know if the 1902 version has the same? I need to know first!!! Eric, Esq.

Eric, My original 1902 carbine stock has the 3 lightening holes.

I figured it out!!! both had holes to hold and secure the wooden stock during machining shape!!! Both models do proves it!! Thats why there are holes drilled in the end of wood to secure and prevent rotation during shaping and final finishing!

When or Where did the theory to Lighten by hole began? I have been a member for close to twenty years and have now idea where the rumor first began! The carbine is already ten times heavier than the stock! Why lighten it even more! Myth Busters!

Walnut is heavy, drilling three really big holes will noticeably reduce the weight and perhaps improve the balance.

In any event, they most certainly are not holes for a fixture. Stocks are turned on a Blanchard (duplicating) lathe like this one in the Gun Shop at Harpers Ferry in Virginia. The lathe turns a blank to match a pattern. This one dates to the mid 19th century, but other than being powered by something other than big leather belts I doubt modern ones are much different.

I have a large collection of Rifle-Muskets whose stocks were made on lathes like this and they have no holes.

How much added weight do you it estimates it saves? Would a few ounces have any effect on overall performance?

After an article on Land Of Bourchardt, I must concede the holes were also used to lighten the stock also! Why, I don't know!!! https://www.landofborchardt.com/10008-chilean.html

Or it's simply an alternative way to hold onto the stock while forming it. There's always more than one way to skin a cat and I believe this is one of them. As others have pointed out, the material removed is simply too small to make a significant weight reduction.

I agree with you they may have served 2 or more purposes as they were used in both models years apart!!!

The British .303 had a hole in the butt plate to hold cleaning materials: small oil bottle, pull through, and cloth patches.

These are too small in diameter to store anything worth while and there are three instead of one larger~ I tried my Swiss Luger Tool and doesn't fit either due to the fluted brass screw end!!

Leave It To The Swiss!

After the first world war, heavy restrictions applied by the allies to Germany. During the Weimar Republic DWM was forced to refurbish prior parts which would be refinished to highest quality for sales on the international markets~ Many are marked "GERMANY" My 1920 carbine is unique as it has and additional rear toggle sight whereas most carbines don't! I have never seen another! It was pictured on the cover of the book, 'Luger Tips' and the picture I posted where one can see the rear sight~! Its the same carbine as I purchased it from the late Ralph Shattuck over twenty years ago! He provided the luger pictures throughout the book and cover I posted!~ Eric

The loss of a few ounces of wood really have no effect! Less than a full magazine of ammo. Will test to make sure!l

Many stocks on featherweight rifles were drilled to reduce weight. It may not be much but it all makes a difference. Bill

This week we are professionally weighing loaded and unloaded to see if a full load of 9mm shells affect the center of gravity!

Be sure to attach and weigh the rig with a snail drum as well!

Good Point I Did And Have A Picture!
 

It adds weight to the mag foward!. Nothing to the stock end!

Eric, et al, if we had the diameter and depth of the holes, the weight of the walnut that was eliminated would provide an idea of how much--or little- weight was eliminated.

I can provide diameter and size and depth.right back!

three equal holes, one half inch diameter and six inches deep! All Identical!

Hi Eric,
I'm not sure if this is the reason for the holes in the Luger carbine stocks, but many competition shotguns have a similar butt stock arrangement. The purpose is for the addition of lead or tungsten weights to enable the gun to be balanced to the shooters taste.
Mark

NEVER!!!! No luger stock were ever weighted~ It worked well in 1902 why not in 1920, The stock was only to STEADY, needed by the German Kaiser Wilhelm to hunt~Using only One Hand~Due to deformed left arm! Its written he was very accurate hunting deer and wild boars!

A Site I Tripped Over While Grazing For Carbines http://www.historic-firearms.com/artillery-luger.html History

Nice theory but ignores the C96 which predated it, having a shoulder stock

Shoulder stocks aren''t the issue, The kaiser needed it to steady his aim. The holes may have been made to lighten his stock and more accurate his aim! But why was it not incorporated in every carbine there after! None of my German rifles have them including Mauser Sportsmodel 22 Hitler Youth Trainer~I Myself removed the butt plate and checked~

Totally different the purpose to store the gun!!! Much different from 3 small half inch holes!

Top 1920, bottom 1902~

Unless I messed up the mathematicss, all 3 holes would total about 1 1/3 ounces.

iI agree but to a one armed man I guess every ounce counts! BUT why are they there? Two purposes to hold on to the stock during fabrication or what else?? Germam have a reason for everything! Ask My Grandpa Bruning

A LONG ARTICLE BUT CONFIRM 'THREE WEIGHT REDUCTION HOLES', CONTAINED IN THE END OF ARTICLE, Land Of Borchardt Chilean Carbines, Having "Three Weight Reduction Holes" https://www.landofborchardt.com/1000...an.html#images

While Charles Whittaker's Land of Borchardt article is detailed and well written (as his stuff invariably is) his conclusions are based on empirical evidence and conjecture, not documentation. So his assertion that the holes are for weight reduction is precisely as valid as the what has been being posted here!
Ron

It might have been learned?
 

I'm sure it was a solution to a problem? It may have reduced cracks or checking, or possibly as a mounting fixture location, or as most seem to agree, just lightening up the whole unit... :cheers:... best, til...lat'r....GT

Maybe We Will Never Know For Sure! I Still Love Them And All Of You!! Thank You For All Of Your Interest!!! Discussion Closed Please~ TKS Eric