1937 Luger firing issues
 

Hi folks, just bought a Luger rig from legacy . When the to the range on thanksgiving with some Winchester white box ammunition. First round was no problem, shell ejected, next round loaded, pulled the trigger for round two and nothing. No firing pin... if I remove the clip eject the round in the barrel, put a clip with 2 rounds, first one fires and then nothing. No jamming issues. Any ideas?

Thanks, Tom

Sounds like the firing pin is not resetting properly. There are several possible causes, most not difficult to fix but I would not attempt to do it yourself.

problem - you took a luger rig from legacy to the range???

Not sure what that means. Please clarify, thanks.

Thanks vlim

Here's a clue: The full name of your source is "Legacy Collectibles." ;)

is the toggle going fully forward into battery ? --

firing issue
 

Hi panzernutter, your cycling problem could be several things, but we can start with the most likely and work forwards from there? The first test we have to try, is to load one round of the Winchester 115 ball target / range ammo in the mag and fire it downrange! This is to verify that the toggle mechanism locks open as it should. Repeat this test several times to insure we have plenty of leeway and it wasn't just a freak borderline result. If it does not consistently lock open with the one round test, you have something dragging or sticking in the gun, (dry or lack of lube) or you have too strong of a mainspring, (not likely). At any rate, you should have some information provided by this test to go further on. And that would be inspecting the disconnector / trigger lever interface. Either the disconnector pin in the end of the sear bar is stuck or sticking, or the trigger lever is not moving back out of the way when the bolt closes and the receiver moves forwards, in which the disconnector pin can't push forward to reset... With the gun unloaded, you should be able to pull back and release the toggle assembly, and pull the trigger, but, do not release the trigger as you normally would, but let it go forwards slowly all the while listen for the tiny click which tells you the disconnector has reset, and it will then allow you to again pull the trigger and release the firing pin? This has to happen every time consistently same as the hold open test.... So, we may have a recoil / interference issue, or a trigger / sear / disconnector issue, or both? do the above, and we can re-visit with new set of parameters... best, til....lat'r....GT:cheers:

The disconnector issue mentioned by Gerald is the most likely issue.

Sometimes these get "sticky" because old lubricant has aged and dried.

This would cause the firing pin not to reset properly.

If it's an all matching pistol, the fitment of the trigger train and sear should be correct, unless it was missed with at some point.

Old lube can certainly be an issue. Just got a 41/42 Mauser the other day. It had some pretty old lube all around the sear bar, (kind of like rubber cement), and was very sluggish. A detail strip, with soaking some small parts overnight in Hoppes #9, some brushing, and reassembly with a good synthetic lube, and all is well. Way mo' betta.

I have encountered the stuck disconnector issue mentioned above. Some people have freed them up with some combination of heat and lubricant. Heat guns can be had cheaply.

They can also be removed and cleaned, but be careful.http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=36571

The issue can also be caused by lack of/incorrect bevel on the transfer lever where it contacts the pin, typically when an aftermarket side plate or transfer lever is new.

If the seller claimed the pistol was functional, you might contact them about fixing it.

Not to take away from the OP's thread but.... enlighten a nob regarding Legacy. Sounds like they should be avoided?
Thanks

legacy is fine in my book
 

Hi to all, One of the perks of this hobby over a long period of time, is getting to know most if not all the prominent Luger dealers and also luger collectors from all over the world. If possible, you will find a way to meet and interact with everyone you can that shares your interest and passion. Now, along the way you find yourself dealing with other collectors, friends, family, auctions sales and estates. And if you find a dealer that has exactly what you want, then dealers as well... The perception that we all seem to have is that everyone in the hobby has the same objective view and what they see thru their eyes, is the same as everyone else's eyes! In reality what you think about a collectible can be polar opposite from what the dealer thinks. At this point, we have to stop and consider / realize that dealers, good dealers, want you to be satisfied with your purchase, BUT, they are not there to hold your hand, they buy and sell for a profit, and you are, at the end of the day, left with only your knowledge, or lack of it, as it relates to a certain example? Now here is where the subjectivity comes in, you want it so bad, you see one thing, the dealer may see another. You may have one price in mind, he may have another. Either way some blue sky has to change hands and that final figure is based on, " how bad you want it, versus how bad does he want to sell it!"
So, what happens, by far and away, most transactions are made in good faith and the collector and dealer meet somewhere in the middle, all is well. Then again, once in a great while the two sides don't agree, and post sale positions are taken.. It all comes down to whose Ox gets gored and how bad is the goring. Also in play is what got the Ox's upset in the first place! If the collector feels he hasn't received satisfaction, he naturally lets the world know he was a victim and certainly has his side to tell. But even with that the final decision to purchase was yours! That is the reason most if not all of the veteran collectors and forum members say in their first post to a newbie, "buy books" and read them!
Now, things slip thru good dealers as well as bad dealers, most time unbeknown to both parties, how they handle the matter, (both sides) tells you a lot about the persons character and integrity. I have dealt with Legacy for as long as they have been in business, and the founder, Tom Whiteman is an outstanding dealer and individual. I've never had a minutes issue with him or his company and i wish him continued success.... Now, I don't have a very big Ox but in my life, he's been gored a lot!!! I still make mistakes, but I learn from them and go forward! The above is my opinion and experience... best to all, til.....lat'r....GT:cheers:

Just my opinion, but I don't think there is any problem with Legacy, or the other major online Luger sellers. Don't expect that they are going to fire, or range test the firearms they sell. Nor are they going to detail strip and clean them. They are typically sold in "as found" condition. If they function normally, by hand, then the seller will usually consider them saleable, as in the case of the OP's pistol. A buyer shoots antique guns at their own risk, and should know that they are generally buying a "pig in a poke", without any real knowledge of a firearms' ability to function normally, and should make no presumptions as to the actual "shootability" of a purchase.

I 1000% agree with G.T. and gunbugs
Legacy Collectables and Tom are as honest and true as they come.

The trigger bar plunger must freely travel in the trigger bar or your gun will not reset properly. You should be able to clean the plunger without removal if you are hesitant about taking it apart for a proper clean. Removal is fairly simple by removing the trigger bar plunger pin but be warned ... it is a very tiny pin and can be lost easily ... set it down in a small container not on your work bench.
Also be aware that the plunger is under spring tension .. do not let the plunger and spring fly out of the trigger bar, control its release.


Also make sure your trigger lever freely travels on your trigger lever pin ... sometimes rust and/or crud limits its free movement.
It doesn't hurt to remove the trigger lever pin and the trigger lever and give them a good clean and the trigger plate as well.
Examin both ends of the trigger lever for excess wear.
Reassembly can sometimes be a bitch so be sure you orient the trigger lever properly. Taking a phone pic before dismantling anything is a good way to keep track of what goes where if your new to this.

If it all seems to daunting best go to a gunsmith, especially if the gun is collector grade.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-man...rer/luger/p-08

Thank you all for the clarification on Legacy. I was hoping that they were good to go, they have some nice stuff from my point of view. OP hopefully the info here helps you with your issue.
Sorry for the thread hijack.

I have dealt with Legacy for as long as they have been in business, and the founder, Tom Whiteman is an outstanding dealer and individual. I've never had a minutes issue with him or his company and i wish him continued success... DITTO. I can't say this about some dealers I know.



One thing to consider. Not many dealers will actually take a collectable Luger and test fire it. I certainly wouldn't expect them to either. It's risky. Collectables are not for the most part used as shooters.

Thanks for the information
 

I do have to say, when you spend 2000 on a matching medium grade Luger rig, you want to know that it operates properly. I do anyway.. I have plenty of other guns to shoot at the range. If it was Theodore Eicke’s gun or a gun never shot ,that would be a different story. If I bought a model T, I would take it out on special occasions and not paint it orange. I did ask Tom on the phone before the purchase if the gun was functional. Yes to best of his knowledge was his answer. He also said he would stand by the quality and make it right if it didn’t. He emailed me yesterday and asked me to send it to him for repair. He’s a stand up guy. I bought another gun from him today. I’m not worried.and I’m looking forward to doing business with LEGACY again. Thanks again for all the helpful information everyone.

It's one way of wasting your money.

If you want to experience how a luger shoots, buy a shooter grade luger to shoot. A non-matching or refinished luger shoots exactly the same as an all numbers matching, original finish gun and you don't risk to cut the value of a collecting grade luger with each shot you fire.

But if wasting money and destroying history gets your blood flowing, go right ahead.

I can remember years past when dealers would advertise a non shooting clause. 3 day non firing inspection. Once you fired the pistol it was yours to keep. No judgement here either way..just what I remember seeing for the last 40 years.

.

But if wasting money and destroying history gets your blood flowing, go right ahead.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it is our place to determine if someone else is "wasting money" or "destroying history". A person gets to spend their money as they please, and do what they want with what they have purchased. I certainly don't think I've "wasted my money" on the guns I have bought that I take to the range and shoot. There are certainly differing opinions on whether to shoot a "collectible" Luger or not, but that is up to the owner, and casting aspersions won't convince anyone to change their mind.

We are here to preserve history for next generations, not to facilitate irresponsible shooters who like to fiddle around on the shooting range with historical pieces just because they can afford to do so.

If you enjoy preserving historical items, you are welcome. If you enjoy destroying them, go somewhere else.

I think we differ in opinion. Shooting any Luger is not "destroying" it. You may certainly impart some wear, but properly maintained, and with some precaution, the gun will far outlast the generations. It has a hole in the end of the barrel. That is where the bullet comes out. The Germans, the Swiss, and others, were not afraid of shooting their "all matching" Lugers. Nor am I. The subject Luger of this thread, a 1937 S/42, is not particularly scarce, or rare. Unless it had some unique aspect to it, it is by its very existence, a "shooter". I don't see myself going "somewhere else". I rather enjoy the forum, and the knowledge and kindness of the forum members. You are certainly welcome to PM me, and we can take this discussion off the board.

Bugs, Both you and Gerben are right in your own way. I can see both points as valid as opposing as they might be.

This is no reason to get crossways among friends and fellow collector/shooters and ask them to comply or leave. Gerben ? Geeze...lighten up. There is room for both sides to come together isn't there?

I shoot an 02 carbine..yes, it's not collector grade but it's an original 02 carbine! It IS history and yes, I am using it up. I got it in a deplorable state, fixed it and now shoot it. I am very proud of it..BECAUSE I can shoot it. Not many people have ever shot one. Using and sharing a piece of history..
Anyway..I don't think that we should be driving a wedge between ourselves.

Our sister forum, also hosted by John D., has an excellent sticky on the subject:

http://p38forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29309

I'm not even going to comment further on the naìve points raised earlier.

Thanks Jerry. I think some folks just need a "chill pill". If a person wants to decorate their walls with Lugers they will never shoot...Good for them. I'm not that person. Anyone who wants to shoot whatever Luger they own is welcome to. Far more nice Lugers have been destroyed or damaged by Government decree over the past 10 years or so, than will be "damaged" by shooting, ever. I don't view welded up, drilled through guns as "history", rather, they are scrap metal.

Well said gunbugs. A man's property is no ones business but his own.

Vlim I truly respect your knowledge and your opinions are as valid as anyone else's but they are just that, opinions.
Every member here has an opinion on every subject we discuss.
Often they will be opposite opinions.
Who is right ... Who is wrong ... Who really knows.
To each his own ... live and let live lest you be consumed with hatred.
I am passionate about my opinions sometimes too ... but that doesn't make me right.

Gerben, I don't need any sticky to know that dust to dust will be the fate of all. What you might be thinking of "preserving" may not come to pass for many reasons unforseen or by those we know and recognize.

Regardless, my point is, that we shouldn't advocate casting out those of us who are not necessarily elite purists of history preservation lest we be seen as naìve snobs. One has to think..just who is the Princely person who might carry on this noble cause? Just some rich guy who can afford this stuff like we can. He might just shoot the shiff out of your historical preservation project...You preserved it for what? We cannot see the future.

The old saying 'You can lead them to water, but you can't make them drink'.

I'm disappointed to see common sense has taken a leave of absence here.

My two cents is that if I pay over $2000 for an all matching Luger I would expect it to function correctly. If I was to pay $600 for a mismatched shooter that would be a different story.

OK, I'm disappointed you want to remove me from the forum for wanting to shoot my carbine. When you disrespect all the shooters..by being an elitist snob, you are too devisive. I am ashamed that you think this way. Frankly it doesn't help. Divided we will fall. That's the way of today's world though. No tolerance for the thoughts of others. You are not welcome or called foolish. SAD.

No offense, Gerben, but I don't think you have a lock on "common sense" here. That is the mindset of the folks who would confiscate and destroy all of your, and my firearms. They see anything other than their view as not "common sense". We can agree to disagree on the subject of shooting Lugers, and part friends.