Help identify: Luger 1906 Commercial 9mm
 

Hi guys!

I am new to this forum and also to owning old guns. Always was a fan of modern ones (except always wanted 1911 from 20-30s)

Few days ago I've bought my first Luger without prior "home work"... That was an impulse buy as I liked it :) (And bought it for less than what I see on GunBroker)

So after I examined it what I found:

Early 1906 Commercial BUG proofed 9mm (should be made 1906-1907?)

Serial numbers:
bottom of the barrel(full) - OK
front of the frame(full) - OK
breechblock (lower left side) - OK
extractor (bottom) - OK
front toggle link (bottom) - OK
rear toggle link (back) - OK
receiver(rear) - OK
side plate (bottom edge) - OK
takedown lever (bottom) - OK
trigger (top left) - OK
grip safety (under grip) - OK
magazine(NO serial) - OK


All proof marks seems on place.

So I ask for your help to check it and also opinion what to do next? :
1. It is fake/ it is dead - make a good shooter from it as it has no any value(change barrel)
2. Good enough sample, pretty scarce. Just clean it and keep it.
3. Between dead and collectible - restore it.
4. Your option :)

Also in your opinion how much it worth? I don't plan to sell it but rather want to understand if I paid too much :)

Thank you!

Few more photos:

Sn 49491 is 10,000 numbers past the beginning of commercial P08 production, so likely dates from late-1909--early-1910. Definitely refinished, certainly adequate for shooting. Replacing the barrel on an all-matching Luger is a controversial act. Shoot it, you might find that it is more accurate than the barrel condition would lead you to believe.


--Dwight

I've owned a 9mm luger with a really bad case of frosted bore. But, it was very accurate!

By Luger book it should be between 1906-1908.. or I am wrong? (Also no more than 4000 were produced in 9mm)

And also I thought that later BUG was changed for BU only.

Which book please?


--Dwight

"Luger" is John Walter's book.
Ron

Standard Catalog of Luger by Aarron Davis

Quote from the book:
QUANTITY MADE
3,500 to 4,000 in 9mm Parabellum
SERIAL NUMBER RANGE: 25050 to 69000.

Some combination of this set of marks was
used on commercial Luger production starting
in 1900 and proceeding through the 1906
pattern guns. The crown/B and crown/U
indicated the actual proof, while the crown/G
is thought to indicate a rifled barrel. Later
the crown/G was dropped, with the other two
marks being applied sideways

Also here (lugerforum.com) there is a proof mark page with the same info about BUG and BU. That's why I thought it should be one of the early productions.

P.S.:
With all respect I am not arguing, I am trying to understand :) As I am getting obsessed with Lugers now and reading about each proof mark - so interesting!

Gathering opinions on what should I do with that rust? CLP oil + 0000 steel wool? Or something heavier?

How do you think what it's worth? (Prior to corona virus :) )

What would you do if you've got that particular gun?

Are you certain that the grooves in the barrel are not simply full of lead stripped off of passing lead bullets.
dju

No, I am not.. Right now trying Wipe Out for 24 hours and after that will try Hoppe's.

If it is lead, a jag such as those made by Parker-Hale wrapped with a tight wad of medium steel wool will remove the lead easily enough. Use it from the chamber end, of course.

Steel wool is MUCH softer than barrel steel and WILL NOT harm your bore. You will clearly see the lead streaks that have been removed on the steel wool.

Davis's "Standard Catalog" is full of misinformation and errors, and cannot be trusted by someone without Luger knowledge.

The serial number range quoted is approximately correct, although there are other variations witnin that range.

DWM's production archives are not to be found. Any estimate of commercial variation production is meaningless guesswork.

The c/B, c/U, c/G proof information is in wrong. This proof suite was in use from the beginning of Parabellum production in 1900 to 1912, when it was replaced by the c/N nitro proof. c/B and c/U are always found stamped sideways on the left receiver. They are also found stamped on the breechblock. c/G without question indicates a rifled barrel, and is always found there with the other two marks. This protocol was established by the German proof law of 1891.

My estimation of date of production--and it is assuredly only an estimate--is based on extensive serial number reporting of New Model variations correlated with the date of the German army's acceptance of the P08 and its subsequent commercial production.

The comprehensive Luger library approaches 50 volumes. I recommend two books to you: "The Luger Book" by John Walter; and "Lugers At Random" by Charles Kenyon. Walters's book is fairly encyclopedic, and succeeds where Davis fails. Kenyon's book is over forty years old (and is therefore obsolete in some details), but it is still the only single-volume overview of Luger collector variations.

The best, most up-to-date information on everything Luger is to be found in this forum and Jan Still's Luger Forum https://luger.gunboards.com/activity.php.

--Dwight

What does coronavirus have to do with the price of Lugers?

If you want to know if you overpaid, tell us what you paid for it.

What it's worth is going to vary a lot depending on if the barrel is really shot out or just clogged.

- Geo

Walter wrote 2 books, "Luger" in 1977 and "The Luger Book" in 1986. Since the reference "The Luger book..." in post #5 just said the single word "Luger" I incorrectly assumed it was Walters first book. I am in total agreement that the Davis book is a minefield for individuals with limited Luger experience.
Ron

I've paid $700 for it and seems that barrel was shot out

Dwight and Ron, thank you for explanation! Will buy "The Luger Book" today and forget about Davis for now.

Due to the heavy polishing and hot dip refinish, I feel that it is matching and early proofed is immaterial, so just a shot out 9mm shooter. If it functions reliably, $700 is a fair price in todays market. TH

I'd love to see the bore after you have cleaned it good !
Let us know how it shoots, too.

Here it is after cleaning. Wipe Out 12 hours - cleaned, 12 hours more - cleaned. A lot of blue colored goo(copper).

If we forget about that it was refinished and that barrel is worn - how rare this model is? Because I don't see any on GunBroker (M1906 in 9mm and not an American Eagle). Also saw maybe 3-4 through other specialized websites. Is it true that only ~4000 was produced?

What's your opinion on this gun? Just make it a good shooter because it lost it's collectible value?

I'd say that one was really "corroded" out.
May shoot ok, if you stay close enough ; or close the door to the barn,
and shoot toward the outside. :)

Barrel can be changed if it doesn't shoot to your liking.

I Miami area all ranges are closed for now, so I can't test it )

IMO,

The 1906 models are very handsome guns and your refinish does not look super ugly in overall aesthetics, even though it does kill collector value. It should still turn some heads at the range. I would be very happy to get a pretty range toy like that for only $700.

First inspiring answer (that I wanted to hear :))) Thank you!)

Decided to do intensive cleaning(spent 3 evenings) and fixed some mistakes of previous owner(who tried to blue strawed parts). Light polishing and 15 minutes in 450F oven made a miracle! :) :

Well done. If you really plan to shoot this, you should invest in an aftermarket magazine such as a Mec-Gar, or find a good WWII FXO magazine.Your magazine looks like a very nice commercial mag to display with the gun, but one of the biggest causes of operational failure is that these hundred-year-old magazines have become tired and out-of-adjustment.



--Dwight

Thank you for insight! I thought about buying Mec-Gar from GunBroker. Do you know where I can find blueprints of original magazine? To check lips and readjust them if needed.

You won't need to mess with the mecgar mag, if you are talking about the original mag- just compare it with the mecgar.

There is a cd of original blueprints available from one of the moderators, there is a recent thread on this.

What oil was used on hand grips? Linseed or Tung? I want to clean them too

Please help me to understand how hand grips were numbered on 1906 Lugers. I see through this forum that some has no number, others has number on both grips. Mine has number on the right grip(and number 1 on top of serial) and P on the left(and some other mark but not digits)

And breach block has strange serial number that seems like it was altered or could it be a mistake that was corrected? :

The fonts on the breech block appear to be the same so IMO the 1 over the 0 is a corrective stamp.

The other possibility is that the breech block was replaced at some point in the pistol's life and both numbers were over stamped. (Looking at the 9, there could have been another number under it but I can't be certain)

See my comment earlier about the utter futility of the fantasy of estimating production numbers. I cannot stress enough about the impossibility of that endeavor.


It is possible to tell you that, of the reported New Model American Eagles, 1,348 are in 7,65mm; and 626 are 9mm. By serial number, there were 44,038 New Model Parabellums produced, in all variations (including interspersed P08 commercial production). It should be obvious why, statistically, it is impossible to make an estimation.


--Dwight

The complete set of Luger Blueprints including the magazine, are indeed still available from me, but are no longer on CD since the advent of high speed internet. You can download them.

"Shoot" me a Private Message (PM), and I will give you ordering instructions. They are $25.00 USD via Paypal.

Blueprints for which models are included? Thank you.