hanging parts and pins
 

What type of wire do you use when hanging parts during the rust bluing process? Also, how do you handle the pins and screws? I'm guessing you blue the pins as well during the project.

Most small parts are fire blued.

So that is heating them with a propane torch and stopping the process be butting them in oil? If so, do I need a special type of oil? If the original finish is okay, there would be no need to reblue correct? My project is a non matching shooter that looks okay but I want to try to fix up.

Putting not butting.

Yes, Pretty simple but practice on small metal parts. Carefully observe color changes and stop applying heat BEFORE the desired effect as it will continue to heat anyway..


Any old oil will work. It's to cool the piece.

One way of getting uniform colors from heat onto parts is to immerse them in a container of sand that's been tempered to the correct temperature. This entirely eliminates any worry about over-heating. A toaster oven works fine for strawing small parts, but you'l need something with more kick to fire blue, which happens at almost 600 degrees F.

If you know a knife-maker, they'd likely have a small tempering oven. A toomaker's tempering oven, potter's kiln, or a glass artist's annealing oven would also work, as long as they're adjustable.

Quenching in oil is not necessary when heat-coloring parts.

I strawed my first nails two nights ago in our kitchen oven by this method. (Wife wanted to know why I was baking a sand pie). It went well in my opinion. I know of a local knife maker and I'll try to see if he has a tempering oven. Thanks.

If you are patient and careful, you can get the higher temperatures by using a propane torch.
Just practice some more.

These pins were treated with a propane torch.

The second picture shows the difference between the wide flange navy type toggle pin/axle and the "normal" one.

Should they be the purple/blue color? Can all the pins be done this way as long as I get the technique down right? I know you don't see anything but the ends of the pins anyway, right?

Also, I am going to needing a few parts like the locking bolt and possibly others. I have seen used ones available and newly made ones. Which would you recommend? The numbers don't match as it is, so I am not worrying about trying to find a certain number. I also realize that just because the numbers match does not mean it is not a mix from other guns. This is another shooter.

Yet another question, do I need to strip and polish the pins or just strip them and use acetone to clean them? Sorry for all the questions but better to ask a knowledgeable person than make a very preventable mistake.

When I am re-coloring parts I sand off the old finish and then clean with acetone before heat treatment. As far as new parts vs. original, I've used both but always prefer original. I found that using new parts makes the project less satisfying for me. It's an entirely subjective decision.

I''ve watched eBay and Gunbroker and the forums for years in search of original part(s) that hit the right combination of price and condition, but for me that's part of the fun.

you need to "polish" the pieces to a white metal condition, the degree of polish depends on what the rest of the pistol looks like- something that blends in- not a high polish, or a rough one.

Clean parts are good.

Color can be what ever you want it to be, look at pictures of original lugers of the type you have and go with something similar.

You can't really screw up, if it turns out the wrong color just
re-polish and do it over.:eek:

You just need to get on with it, you will learn more in 1/2 hour of doing than by asking a zillion questions! JMHO :evilgrin:

Reproduction(new) parts frequently require more fitting than original parts.
Not every part, original or not, can be made to fit and function in every luger.
The TD lever will likely require fitting to the existing side plate, actually the side plate will be fit to the new lever. It may or may not be "fittable".

I built a luger from parts this weekend, fortunately I had 6 or 8 side plates, and half a dozen trigger levers. I tried all of each and still could not get the pistol to fire. :surr:
I finally had to change the trigger, then I was able to get a combination that would work.

The moral of this story is that you may need to buy more than one part, or even more than one of the same part to get one to fit.

Probably 80-90 % of the time one can make a substitute part work, but sometimes they just will not co-operate.

Side plate, trigger, triggle lever, and sear bar interaction are the tough ones to get correct function.

But then no one promised working on lugers would be a "walk in a rose garden". There is a reason that the small parts were numbered when the pistol was initially built. ;)

Her are some pictures of the trigger and the ejector. I strawed the trigger and it just doesn't look quite right. Do I need a higher temperature? Also, can I sand out the imperfections in the trigger? Also, is the ejector too pitted or can I get it cleaned up all the way?

You can "clean up" the trigger, but the ejector would likely wind up too thin- it is a spring.

You didn't heat the trigger hot enough and/or long enough to get good yellow straw.

You get a do-over! ;)

Also, can I sand out the imperfections in the trigger? Yes, within reason. Be sure to clean well with alcohol or acetone just before heating to remove imperfections. Large items like a trigger need to be evenly heated slowly.

I will have to be away from the project for a while in a couple of days. Should I spray it down with oil or some other protectant? I am only in the polishing phase right now. I really do appreciate all of the help I am getting with this thing.

Should I spray it down with oil or some other protectant? Not unless there is high humidity? Remember you want the part clean and OIL FREE until after strawing.

Okay, they will be in my home with ac. So everything will be left where it is. I'll take some pictures of the next strawing attempt and where I am so far. As always, any tips or critiques are appreciated.

If you do this in the oven you need to make sure you leave it in there long enough for the entire part to reach the right temperature. The color depends on the temperature in the steel, so the thinner parts take on the color first since they heat up quicker. It seems like the thicker part on top of your trigger didn't get much color, so try and leave it in the oven longer next time you try it.

I went for an hour and tried bumping the temp to 470 in the oven. They came out a very pretty purple!!! More polishing and attempt #3 coming up.

You will have to experiment with your oven temperature, the numbers on the knob will likely be
+/_ 10 or even 20 degrees from the actual temperature.
Also the temp will vary depending on which shelf, and where on the shelf the parts are.

Obvoiusly 470 is too "hot", ;).

Yeah, you need to put the parts in the same place in the oven every time you try it. Convection ovens will more than likely make this less critical, but consistency is important when you're trying to hit the exact color.

Let's remember that heat straw and heat blue are not finishes. Rather they are an incidental by-product of the heat treatment of the part to get it to a state where it is hard enough to resist abrasive ware, without making it so hard it is too brittle to be useful.

Re-tempering a part just to get a cosmetic color can have an adverse effect on the whether the part is too soft, or too hard, to last.

I went for an hour and tried bumping the temp to 470 in the oven. They came out a very pretty purple!!! This is called fire blue.

I dropped it to 450 and left it for an hour in sand. Seemed to turn out a pretty good color. I will post pictures when I get back home. I will also post pictures of the rest of the project. Be ready for more questions.

Okay, I made it back home and have started in again. I soaked the frame and smaller parts in evapo-rust overnight and have cleaned them up. I will post pictures as soon as I can get the phone and computer to talk nicely. I have to ask how do you get the old bluing out of the proof marks? Am I just seeing the shadow or am I not doing something yet?

Another thing, Since not all of the frame is seen, or the major portion of the breechblock, or the inside of the receiver, do you put solution on and rust the entire part or just what is seen? because that would greatly increase the carding procedure and even increase the possibility of spotting and streaking during the rusting process due to maybe runs or drops of solution forming.

Only the exterior parts of the frame and barrel/receiver are subject to the rust bluing process. The exterior surface of the parts are swabbed with the bluing solution leaving the interior "in the white" i.e unfinished. The entire toggle train however is completely blued.

What you're seeing is probably the black residue from the Evaporust, and there's no need to get it out of the stamps. You'll be rusting and carding several times over, and it will disappear in the process. If you do want to get it out, use Brownell's carding brush (https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-t...-prod6732.aspx), the bristles are small enough to reach into the tiny stamps. But again: It's not really necessary. The most important thing is that you degrease thoroughly before you apply the rusting solution. I would recommend Purple Power for this, spray the parts, rinse in hot tap water, spray and rinse again and dry the parts with compressed air followed up with a hair dryer. This leaves the parts entirely free of grease, this is actually how I degrease parts before I nickel plate so I know it works. You can't hold the parts with your hands while doing this, you need to hang them from hooks to make sure they're not contaminated again. Wire hangers from the dry cleaner make good hooks for this. Also buy some nitrile gloves from Walmart. No matter how careful you are, you will touch the parts or get the rusting solution on your hands.

Do you clean with acetone after carding and before the next rusting?

There are "instructions" for rust bluing on the "net".

Sounds like to need to read several, and look on utube also.

But no, if you don't get finger prints(oil) on the pieces, you don't need to clean again.

I have been reading everything I can find and watching as much as possible. I just try to make sure I am thinking right before I mess something up. I don't mean to be a bother.

Hugh,
sometimes you just have to learn by doing.
All the reading and questions are good, but you and the writers of instructions won't think of every eventuality.
You can't really mess up that bad, unless you really go off the reservation.

I believe that I, or someone else, recommended you start with a shooter or "beater" pistol or just a piece of steel!

You have got to start somewhere, sometime- just do it. :)

I started on some steel plate I had in the garage yesterday. The first rusting/boiling went fairly well I think. It is a little streaky on one of the plates. I hope that will work its way out as the process goes. The plates look good to me so far. The gun I am working on is a shooter. I am just very skeptical until I start in. And I do greatly appreciate all the info you and everyone else has shared.

I don't like acetone for this. It will dissolve oil, but since the oil will contaminate the acetone it can also contaminate the parts when the acetone evaporates. Purple Power and hot water is much better IMO.