Magazine not feeding properly
 

Hi all, I bought some 9mm"snap"caps just to see if my recently acquired 1938 P.08 would load properly. Bottom line - it doesn't! My problem is not knowing if it"s the magazine (it's not the original, the marking doesn't match) or the snap caps. How can one tell?
Also, when activating the toggle I have to keep pressure on the clip in order to lock the toggle in place. does anyone know of a fix for this?
TIA

It could be any one or all of the issues you mentioned. If you have a modern reproduction like a MecGar, try that out to see if any of the above aspects improve. Your hold open and/or hold open spring may also be weak or damaged if it’s not engaging like it should.

If you have to keep pressure on the mag to get the hold open to work, it is probably the magazine- or less likely the hold open.

You can always remove the striker/spring/and retainer; and use live rounds to test. Observe all safety precautions just as you would if the striker were still in the pistol.

IF the magazine sits low in the pistol, it could be that the retention notch is worn and prevents the magazine button from pushing the holdopen high enough for reliably locking back the toggle.

Another critical factor to reliable feeding is the Overall Length of the cartridges you are trying to feed (snap-caps or otherwise).

Thanks John,
I suspect it's the magazine as you described. Unfortunately, I don't have another magazine to test that assumption. While I know I can buy one over the internet I would prefer trying one that's of the same year and manufacturer as mine. Finding one might be a challenge though!
I measured the snap caps and they appear to be in spec. I'll get some live rounds (remove the firing pin as suggested above) and try it again.

Period correctness of a mag indicates nothing about how well it will work. Year and manufacture of mag aren't as important as one's design and condition. You'll want to set originals aside for shooting anyway, because their wood bottoms can break. Italian made MecGar mags are the go-to mags for shooting and cause very few problems.

Also, don't squeeze that very last round into your magazines. They are all more prone to misfeeding when loaded to the max.
dju

In a Luger to use as a "shooter" at the range I would only use a new mag, FWIK "MEC GAR" makes pretty good magazines also for Luger pistols, and are not expensive either.

When a Luger has a feed and/or hold open issue I agree that the magazine is the best place to start the analysis. Perhaps my most valuable 'tool' for such pistols is a MecGar magazine with a stronger-than-stock spring installed by Gerald Tomek (GT). Often that magazine cures a hold-open or feeding issue, when it doesn't my analysis of the problem moves to non-magazine areas.

Please describe the loading issue in more detail, Lugers can malfunction in more than one way during the loading cycle.

And how about trying it at the range before deciding that there is a problem? Hand cycling snap caps does not replicate how the gun will function loading 115 gr. FMJ rounds.
dju

This ^^^^^

Hi all,
I'll try to respond to your replies as best I can.
1- With regards to the problem being the magazine I bought some Remington 9mm Luger .115gr rounds and they worked perfectly after first removing the firing pin. I measured both the snap cap and the live round as best I could (I don't have access to precision measuring tools) and found that the snap cap is a tiny bit thicker. The length is identical.
2- I didn't plan on using this gun on the firing range since it is in a collectable condition and didn't want to take any chances with it. But now I might just fire off a clip or two just to make sure everything is working fine.
3 - I will order the MecGar magazine and use that for the firing test.
Hopefully, I covered your replies and I want to thank all of you for your valuable inputs.

CDNN Sells new Mauser made Blued extruded magazines for a great price too. I bought a bunch of them from my shooter and they work great.

Scott

Thanks Scottrt I ordered and received a MecGar magazine yesterday and it loads much better. I really can't see why this magazine pushes the magazine catch much higher than the original but it really does! Locking the toggle is not the problem anymore .I now have a different problem though but I think more my ignorance of Lugers than anything else but may be related to the new magazine pushing the magazine catch much higher. The problem is this - when I cycle the toggle to load a snap cap round in the chamber it locks in the back position. I have to push back a little farther to take pressure off then release the magazine clip. The snap cap remains in the magazine.

Good point! However, I'm the curious type and wanted to make sure everything worked including firing it.

This makes no sense.

Are you loading the snap cap via the magazine or directly into the chamber?

The magazine can only raise the hold open so far, it is limited by the arm of the hold open connecting with the bottom of the receiver; this is only the case when the pistol is assembled of course.

Hi Don,

I'm loading the snap caps via the magazine. I think I understand why the confusion. When I said "I really can't see why this magazine pushes the magazine catch much higher than the original" I was checking the original magazine's "hold open" function to the new MecGar magazine hold open function by disassembling the pistol and using just frame portion of the Luger so I'll be able to see the difference when I insert each magazine.

Snap caps have value in checking some aspects of function, but I have owned pistols that don't cycle snap caps well that function perfectly with live ammo. My default is Winchester White Box 115 gr.; I avoid Remington ammo as I have owned P 08s do not seem to like it.

Thanks for the advice
 

Wouldn't you know that I bought some Remington ammo a while back when I was thinking of testing this pistol to make sure everything was working properly. I have since decided not to fire it and just keep it as a collectable. Thanks again for that information re: Remington ammo.

Lugers can be ammo sensitive. So when troubleshooting any issue relating to FTF/FTE or magazines, for me part of the testing regimen includes trying different ammo. For all I know Remington might work great in some Lugers. My Lugers however seem to have gotten together and decided they don't like it.

4 Scale,

Truly showing how individual these guns can be, my shooter eats up any ammo that I’ve put in it so far without issue.

Decided to shoot
 

I know I mentioned that I was not going to use my P08 as a shooter but my curiosity got the better of me so I went to the range yesterday to give it a try. I only shot 10 rounds with the following results:
8 - fired w/o problem
1 - stovepipe
1 - jam
I was using the Remington shells I bought earlier so it might just be them. I'll try Winchesters next.
The shooting went well except for what I mentioned above and hitting the target above where I was aiming. I also did some shooting with a SW 38 Special and a SW 380Auto EZ. They went OK so I think I need to spend more time learning to aim the P08.

meadowlark, it could well be that the cartridges have marginal power for your Luger. Other considerations are the magazine (I use Mec-Gar mags) and if you provided adequate resistance to recoil for the action to work properly. IMO and experience, the Luger is more sensitive to "limp wristing" than newer designs.

WRT the POI being high, that's not unusual although the cartridges you use can effect POI; e.g., a 115 grain load may shoot lower than a 124 grain bullet. Depending upon how high, you may want to contact Lugerdoc (Tom Heller) and see if he has a higher front sight blade that will lower the POI.

Keep at it and you'll get your Luger working like you want.

Shooting Performance
 

Doubs - The cartridges I used were 115 gr. I believe my problem with shooting high has to do with me not sighting the Luger properly. I think I was sighting primarily using just the front sight so I think I was "wristing" the back down a little bit thus causing the higher POI.

I'm sure you know to place the top of the front sight even with the top of the back sight. In general my Lugers also tend to shoot a bit high.

I load my own cartridges and I use mostly 115 grain bullets. I use just enough powder to reliably cycle the Luger action. I find that such loads also work well in more modern pistols.

IIRC,
the luger iron sights are "regulated" for 75m.
One would expect them to shoot high at "normal" US handgun distances. JMHO.

Thanks Don
 

This is the first time I heard of the P08's sight being regulated for 75m. Good information! Thanks again.

That's something I've never seen or heard before but it doesn't surprise me. It was designed for shooting humans and the body is a fairly large target. Shooting a bit high isn't really a problem.

Shooting high
 

I agree with you regarding why the P08 was designed the way it was but since I have no intention of shooting anybody it's good information as to why I might have been shooting high at the range. However, I still think I wasn't aiming properly as I noted previously.

Early lugers were recalled for the addition of the hold open, at the same time a higher front sight was installed to bring the zero distance down, from 100 to 75 m. I expect one could find the story of these changes in the Luger Parabellum 3 volumes somewhere.

More to the point, the high impact is why GT had taller front sights made- so that folks who want to shoot at 25 or 50 yards can change the front sight blade and hit where they aim. Lugerdoc has the sights in several sizes if anyone wants one.