swap meet winchester.
 

leaving the swap meet this morning and I see a guy with a towel wrapped around something with a barrel sticking out of it, so I stopped and asked what was up. He just got to the swap meet and was bringing this rifle to his friends table. I asked what he had and he pulls out a old winchester lever rifle. I asked what he wanted for it, he tells me he just bought it at a yardsale yesterday in tombstone for 30 bucks and make a offer. I guess they demo'd a house and it was found in a wall (why couldnt it have been a Tommy gun?) anyway I offered 75 bucks, he came back at 100. so I brought it home. turns out to be a winchester 94 saddle ring carbine. according to the sn made in 1911. is missing the hammer spring, and screw, tang screw, the pivot pin and screw. all ordered this afternoon.
not sure what it's worth but still a cool old gun. Not going to buff it or anything. might order a used stock because the original is cracked and loose. Basically have $146 bucks total into it. looking down thebarrel it's still got good rifling. jim

Why not have someone like, oh, say, Jim Solomon give you an opinion on having the original stock repaired? ;)

I'm not sure if it's worth fixing. I really have no idea what the thing would be worth, I'm thinking finding a replacement stock and save the original, I think numrich had some factory 2nds for 25 bucks or so. jim

Jim, do nothing to the rifle. I am sure there are many Winchester collectors who will gladly pay you several hundred dollars for it. The collector I talking about delights in obtaining these barn finds, for lack of a better term, stabilizing the rust and hanging them on the wall. You didn't say what caliber it was but I would guess it's a 30-30. You will never make a shooter out of it anyway, pass it on.

A Winchester saddle-ring carbine found in a wall in Tombstone...man that has western lore written all over it! Sure there is no way to document it and it is little more than a wall hanger, but to a western buff it has to be like gold in them thar hills. I agree, I wouldn't do a thing to it.
Ron

the rifling actually looks really good thanks to our dry climate. new parts should be here this week. it's a 30 30, I dont see any reason why I couldn't shoot the rifle with a tight fitting stock. I was reading where you take a pre 1982 penny, pour oil on the metal and rub it with the penny to get any rust off the outside. Sort of like the 0000 steel wool and oil without the little steel fibers.
last summer a guy at another swap meet had what was left of another winchester he found outside of tombstone, this swap meet is in sierra vista which is about 20 minutes from tombstone. jim

Jim, you have got to open a new thread in the Repairs & Restoration forum to chronicle this. Take lots of close-up pics, before & after. :thumbup:

very cool - less is better in restoring :)

Jim,
For heavy crusted rust I have found that the flattened mouth of a brass cartridge case used as a scraper works a bit better than a penny.
Ron

thank you Ron, I'll give that a try. it's really not heavily rusted. the pics makes it look worse than it really is, theres baked on dirt. I'm just going to knock down the worst of the crud on the barrel. I learned that there is a difference in what's a correct stock for this thing. You can see how the stock is shrunk and cracked by the tang. A new stock has to be fitted and will look completely out of place on the rifle, but a used stock will probably have some issues. I might try epoxy on the inside to fill any voids to tighten the fit and fill the crack from the back side to keep the wood from falling apart. get it to function and leave it alone. I agree with leaving something like this u unrestored or even trying a shade tree restoration. To me it sort of takes the history of the rifle away. jim

On the Smith-Wesson website a 50/50 acetone and ATF mixture works wonders at removing rust and freeing screws. One puts the mix and gun in an airtight container for about a week.

Compare posts 1 and 29 for the before and after results.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-han...d-updated.html

Thanks for the heads up on that process, I had not heard of that before. I have a candidate for trying it on.

got to looking at the rifle a little closer. looks like I need a new firing pin also. push it completely forward and the tip does not stuck out. Did some reading and found that these winchesters do not like to be dry fired. jim

Some firing pins are made too short to be pushed forward, and rely on inertia to send the tip far enough forward to hit the primer. That MAY be the case in your '94.
dju

Not a good idea to dry fire a 94 Winchester... they break their tips off... Don't ask me how I know. Use a Snap cap or at least a fired cartridge case...

Make a snap cap from a resized or new case with a piece of eraser in the primer pocket. You can come up with many things to put in the primer pocket just make sure it is soft. Bill

thanks for the idea on the snap cap. I have 1 30-30 round. I was going to pull the slug, dump the powder and see if the primer fires.
Now on to the progress. parts should be here Friday, I noticed the lever safety wasnt protruding through the bottom tang. there was a small burr on it, knocked off the burr, put the spring on it and the trigger safety works.
found a correct pattern stock on Ebay for 66 dollars shipped. it's a factory second, correct pre 1936 92 or 94 carbine stock. I'm thinking after fitting it, see how to go about making it look weathered so it doesnt look too out of place.
Goal is to be able to have this thing shooting and 100% functioning for under 250 dollars. jim

If you have a piece of leather and a leather punch just punch out a piece the correct size (may take a couple pieces) and super glue it in the primer pocket. Bill

Thanks. that sounds like a good idea. jim

got my small parts installed. found out it looks like I'm missing the carrier. maybe a carrier spring but I cant find a decent schematic to see exactly what I have and what I need. I've got a new stock coming Monday. probably should have stopped where I'm at and just hung it on the wall. jim

Yeah, Numrich has 4 or 5 variations of the 94 but hard to see. Here's a grab from the NRA book -

thank you for the schematic. looks like the carrier is the only thing missing. just ordered one off Ebay. bullet goes into the chamber fine. just not sure about the firing pin
jim

As the NRA pointed out when asked about sporterizing [ that's a word invented in the 1960s when everyone was ruining their 03A3s ] and I quote them," you can take an $800 rifle, spend three to five hundred on the conversion and turn it into a $five hundred dollar rifle. The numbers I quoted may not be exactly as the NRA stated but you get the idea. I am sure with a little searching you could find someone who would trade you a more modern working 1894 for the one you have, if you don't butcher it.

I understand about butchering a gun. basically I'm just replacing the missing parts. Not going to refinish anything. not modifying anything. it's all just replacing missing parts. I'm keeping the original stock as is. I did order a replacement stock, again remove a screw and install the original stock and it's back to factory. jim

one nice thing about these old rifles vs a luger, nothing is numbered. jim

a little progress, started to fit the new stock onto the rifle, it's close enough for what I want to do with the rifle. But! as I look at the back of the gun, the buttplate cutout is nowhere close. after looking at some pictures it seems I have a rifle stock on it with the deep crescent shape.
the options I have is.
1 find a correct buttplate
2 rough cut the stock for the buttplate I have now.
3 leave it as is, throw a rubber buttpad on the new stock and just move on. jim

Thank you for the golden tip!

Jim,

I think your doing great.
I've been in such "rescue projects" (as I called them) myself and wht I found out is "less is more". No problem with replacing missing or too damaged parts. In the in end you will have a nice, functional gun, with a lot of character.
I do not intend to compare apples with oranges or kidnap your topic but here is what I did with an Ithaca M1911A1 found in a similar situation,
Keep us updated!
Douglas

carrier came in today and it was a quick install. cycled it a few times and the hammer kept following the bolt. the lever safety was bit rounded, lightly touched it with a file and she locks up solid.
stuck a live round in it, cycled it, bullet loaded perfectly (too bad I was in the house, I really wanted to pull the trigger). But pulled the lever and the round ejected nicely. I've got 1 30 30 round, I'll probably pull the projectile, dump the powder, load it and see if the primer goes bang (when my wifes not home). jim

I am not too heavy into Winchester lever guns, but did see this on a site. I have used his products before, and are first rate. FWIW

http://www.treebonecarving.com/winch...un-stocks.html

thanks for the link, I think that's the company that sold the factory second on Ebay. they dont show a carbine plate but I'll rig up something. I also need to patina the stock so it doesnt look so out of place.
I have a old CS schattuck shotgun that had a shattered stock by the reciever, the gun cost me 20 bucks and probably all it's worth, so I filled the damaged area with fiberglass, sanded it all back down and sprayed truck bed liner over the stock. Redneck but functional. jim

I cannot speak about the butt plate for the '94 carbine you have, never having owned a '94 saddle ring carbine but I have owned many '92s. The '92 did not have a crescent butt plate. The '92 carbine had a stamped butt plate that was wider than the crescent one. I know Winchester used many of the same parts on these two rifles so it seems they would share the same butt plates on the same modles.

Well ended up getting everything installed and tried to fire off a primer in a empty case and I found out the firing pins is broke. Got one in on friday and I believe its all in working order now.
So I go to the same swap meet on sunday and picked up a Remington 510p missing a trigger guard and rusty bolt for $20. Little penetrating oil and ebay for a trigger guard, I've for a working single shot .22 for $45!.
As im leaving theres a guy with a ruger gp100 with a ruptured cylinder and lost hammer and grips. $80 and it follows me home. $245 forba gp100 parts kit off the net, swap out the missing and broken parts and I have a stainless gp100 with a 6" barrel. Cylinder locks up nicely in time even. Jim