Opinions on this carbine please..
 

Not really Luger Guy more a Nihonto Japanese sword guy I do have one shooter grade Luger and I just acquired this but I am looking to trade it for a sword to a friend however I’m not sure of the value of this.

From what I gather is a vet brought this back and then had the stock in the four grip replaced in the 70s as well as having the box made. Only 2 numbers visable, stock has some wiggle to it. It’s 9mm.

I know enough to be dangerous and I can’t really find any examples other than the $10,000 ones out there on the Internet so any and all info or opinions would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

Matt

I can tell you that it’s been re-blued/buffed or otherwise constructed of miscellaneous parts, the toggle link on top should have the DWM scroll on it if it’s an original. While carbines like this were sometimes made in 9mm, most were chambered for .30 Luger instead. I see several forum members who take one of their shooter grade Lugers and convert it into a carbine as a project with a great deal of time and effort expended in the process. If I have my guess, I’d say that’s what happened in the case of this carbine.

Appreciate it! Think it’s worth 3k?

3000$? No, in my humble opinion. But it is nice looking.

What would be a fair price? I don’t want to screw anyone nor do I want to get screwed.

I appreciate your time!

Matt

I'm very interested in seeing more photos of the stock attachment lug on the gun and also on the stock itself. Something completely out of the norm.
Price is going to be difficult to quote, it may end up being one of those unusual items that is worth exactly what someone will give you. No more and no less.
Have you shot it and how does it function?
dju

Put 50 rounds of 124g through it yesterday. 3 stove pipes that’s it, the rest fed flawlessly.

Sorry the other end..

YIKES! It's a shooter...nothing more. Allowing $1,200 would be generous IMO. Your friend might be willing to part with more for it on a trade..But..it ain't no carbine.

Ok, well I still did ok on it then.

Yeah I may still do ok as he’s more into guns than swords.

I appreciate everyone’s time and thoughts!

Matt

In the 60's / 70's - it was not uncommon to get a carbine kit - you can tell because of the barrel being 16+ inches - AND the stock lug is totally weird.

Personally, I think they did a good job and if it feeds and shoots (the two I had would not keep firing more than a couple at a time before jamming).

The stock and other wood is nice looking and for trade value, I would think you could get 2k - selling, I would be asking $1400-$1600 but stressing that it does function.

Ed

Crap, I can’t do it to him.

Well there’s a gun show next weekend.

Thanks for the input!

Matt

So is the forearm wood attached directly to the barrel or to something else? When you cycle the toggle does the barrel move fore and aft independently of the forearm wood?
Thanks for photos of the stock attachment device. It's a new one on me...
dju

So is the forearm wood attached directly to the barrel or to something else? When you cycle the toggle does the barrel move fore and aft independently of the forearm wood?
Thanks for photos of the stock attachment device. It's a new one on me...
dju

The barrel moves when cycled.

the two that I have had (and the barrel was too heavy for shooting), had a screw that held the forearm to the barrel if I remember correctly

Yep there’s a screw about 4” away from the sling attachment.

I'm not an expert, especially on carbine lugers, just for your reference the one pictured below not long ago was sold here for almost 19,000 $ although the stock is not matching.

The frame stock attaching lugs are somewhat bizarre, but appear to be effective. Either the original stock lug was ground off or it is a pre-lug frame. The smaller lug was evidently added to keep the stock from twisting. The large lug has a groove filed in it to lock the stock in place. No sliding lug slots at all. :confused:

Pics aren't detailed/clear enough to see exactly how it locks up but I get a rough idea of how it would work.

Oil is seeping into the left grip. :(

Mec-Gar magazine??? Plastic bottom looks like it.

I think Jerry's estimate of value is generous. :)

It's been my observation that new members with questions of originality or authenticity already have valid suspicions about their Luger in question. This is a good example - You already suspected it was not original and wished to reinforce that suspicion with opinions from more knowledgeable Luger collectors. I'm surprised that Don or Dwight haven't voiced their concerns, but you've gotten a couple good opinions already.

How about some clearer pics of the frame lugs, the stock attaching iron, and the frame with forearm removed??? That should elicit more comments. :)

Others have said what I would have.
I would be in the not so well hand made/one off production group.

Here are a few pics.

A few pics.

I'm not an expert, especially on carbine lugers, just for your reference the one pictured below not long ago was sold here for almost 19,000 $ although the stock is not matching.



The carbine mentioned in post#18 brought a crazy price IMO. The stock is not an original carbine, looks made of pine and totally aftermarket. That stock would shave 5-8000 IMO.



The original post..while my estimate of $1200 might seem generous..it could be very difficult to re create this long barreled carbine for much less?

I think that would depend on how much the 'smith' valued his time. The forearm attaching piece is radically different from a Luger carbine but is obviously easier to make. The frame attachment pieces are also, compared to an OEM stock lug, easier to make. Whoever made it did not copy an existing Luger carbine but they did a creditable job. Not masterful, but not totally 'bubba' either. I didn't notice until now that it had a fitted box - That would bump up the price. ;)

Not enough pics to tell what the rear/barrel sight is.

A gun show would be the perfect place to sell it. To a new enthusiast. :)

I think that would depend on how much the 'smith' valued his time. There is doing it yourself and there is having it done. Regardless..parts alone would be more than $1200? Basic pistol, barrel, etc.

Definitely a one-of-a-kind homebrew. Shooter value in my opinion, no collector value left. The mechanical work is unusual but certainly functional... It is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it... but I certainly would never consider a value above the $1200 mentioned earlier...and probably less.

Just my $0.02... spend it wisely.

Though the "carbine" is a one-off piece, if it functions reliably, it could make for a fun range gun, and conversation piece. That stock is a very nice piece of wood. Someone spent some time and $$$ to produce this end product.

Matt,

Certainly an interesting item. I kinda have a hard time thinking that it once was a carbine from the old world in looking at some of the attachments to the firearm. I would surmise that it was built from various parts post 16 inch barrel time, one would think that earlier than that a modification would not have included extra length on the barrel fwiw.

It appears that the forearm and buttstock was made from one piece of wood. Fairly nicely done too.

The forend hanger is affixed to the triggerguard with a small amount of contract, if silver soldered, one might wonder about how long it will stay. If welded, tis more better. Original forend hangers have a lot of wrap around on the triggerguard for strength and area of adhesion. At least the forend does not contact the barrel and add weight/resistance for function like in some later renditions sold to kids. Wrap around trigger hangers to the guard can hide the serial, which is an issue to some folks, for a newly manufactured firearm with stock..........or otherwise.

The buttstock attaching iron is probably homebrew, not easy to make; but easier than doing the curve in a rear attaching iron. I suspect that if the locking and alignment stud is not fitted well, that the stock will pivot slightly axially when lashed up.

One would suspect not much collector value at least from a non collector's point of view. As a shooter, function counts for a lot; even with some bad cosmetics. This one is not all that bad in appearance, better than some I reckon.

Some work in the carbine pictured, but hard to see a lot of money in it to buy it outright. Kinda one of those things, it is worth what you wanna pay for it. I would have a hard time putting 700 in it, but just one opinion in the many here.

If it works and guess it does from the posts, tis lots better than the carbine kits of the 50-80's from the shooter's point of view. Cost to make like that is another book, would take a while to figure that out from some point of view. Some folks have done it recently actually here on this forum.

Thanks for showing it, has some innovation and fair craftsmanship to it all in all.

Rick W.

I appreciate everyone’s time and knowledge! If anyone ever has a question regarding Japanese swords, please don’t hesitate to contact me!

Thanks again!

Matt