.45 luger #20 received from "Lugerman"
 

Received my .45 acp luger today !:) Pistol comes with two magazines and a typical luger style loading tool.

Too late to take it to the range today and rain tomorrow; but maybe next Tuesday I'll be able to post a range report. The pistol should be about half "broke in", as Eugene fired about 200 rounds in his final testing and magazine fitting.

I'm start the thread today with some pictures of the luger inside and out. It is a really nice piece of work, well done in fit and finish.:thumbup:

I wanted something a little "different" than the standard 5" model, so requested a 5.5" barrel be installed. It actually measures about 5.75" so the barrel length should give ballistic performance equal to the standard issue 1911 Govt. .45 acp pistol.

Love it! Anxious to see your range report. One thing I noticed from your excellent photo's is the serial numbers..they look a little weird..like they are engraved rather than stamped?

Numbers
 

Yes the numbers were made in special font created for this project.
And Yes they are engraved, and not stamped. Material that is used on the guns is 4140 pre-hard. It was cut with carbide tools and will be pretty hard to stamp and keep the stamp alive for long.
We did not feel like adding cost for annealing it, stamping and then reheat treating the parts.
Thanks for noticing.

Lucky Boy!!

Markings style
 

We used Commercial style positioning of the numbers, and commercial guns never had barrel sizes put on.
As soon as army contract rolls around we will change the markings to army style :jumper::):jumper::):jumper:
Caliber mark is on as per ATF regulations

Well, actually DWM did kind of put the barrel "size" on early commercial pistols; they used the arcane # of lead balls to the pound to designate.:eek:

Like that below on a 1906 BUG proofed 7,65mm, the numbers are 178,31 (balls to the pound):

we do not want to confuse any one now, do we.:confused::confused::confused:

45 Auto on the bottom of the barrel is loud and clear :)

Simple artillery barrels
 

Anyone who thinks that making artillery barrels is simple, I welcome to try it and I will buy them at good price in bulk if anyone can produce them at same price I am.

Same goes for 45 Lugers :):):)

If by simple you mean, will look good and balance right on the 45 Luger then I agree.

A 45 Cal Carbine would be sweet for hunting

Carbine in 10mm
 

We are working on 2 of them,

One for an order and one for show.

They will be chambered for 10mm , I think it's a flatter flying bullet.

and has a bit more kick to cycle carbine's long 16 inch barrel.

But one can be done in 45 ACP if anyone cares to order one.


10mm cartridge size is very similar and will load in to same frame and mag. breach block is the only difference.

We do have breach blocks already made for 10mm guns.

Engine lathe is 1/2 the battle....
I will have Don answer that one ;0)

An artillery barrel the way the Germans and Eugene do/did theirs is tough.
The lathe part is easy; it is the front and rear sight bases that are tough- and done on a mill; as Rich well knows.

But no, I don't think I "need" a .45 artillery or carbine; I'm happy to have one of Eugene's .45 lugers, and would "up-grade" it to Navy status if he ever builds a .45 size rear toggle with Navy style sight.:)

I do enjoy/prefer the original lugers with historic connection and especially unit markings; but these 21st Century .45 luger style pistols from Eugene are already historic in a way- as the first even "semi" mass produced .45 cal lugers made. JMHO.

Rear sight expirement
 

Here is rear sight experiment we have designed for target style guns.

You must have great machinery! Good For You!

Could You mount a scope on a luger for compitation shooting?

Scope mount
 

Yes,

there are 2 ways to add a scope to a luger.

In both cases it has to clear the toggle action so it will have to be just above chamber and forward.

One way is have a frame attachment under the barrel , just like carbines and have a scope mounted around the barrel on that.

Or have a slide rails added on to the left side of the frame's flat aria behind the side plate and have rail mount that will slide on and off.
That aria of the frame will have to be build up a bit to hold the rails.
In that case the scope mount will have to be cut so it will move the scope over the action to the front of the chamber.

I like first option better,as it will also allow adding weights to the frame attachment,
with a good compensator on the barrel, it will be a speed machine.

Eugene, interesting stuff, thanks!

---

Don, a bit jealous, but glad for you :)

Competition model
 

If anyone wants to order one, I will be game for building it,
as I wanted to do it for a while.

Need something new on my mind all the time, or I loose interest ;0)

What model would be more receptive?

I really like that barrel length on your new 45 Luger. It looks balanced to my eyes. I look forward to your range results.

To me, this is the most elegant way to mount a scope on a Luger. It requires a LP08 rear sight base and a custom front sight mount fitted to the barrel taper. Anything from a long eye-relief scope to an Aimpoint could be accommodated (I think :)).
If I had the disposable income I used to enjoy, I would like to have a .45 LugerMan gun with a 16" barrel, the LP08 rear sight base, custom scope mounts as shown that would accommodate a modern long eye-relief scope, a stock lug so that a stock much like a carbine stock could be legally used, and ton of .45 ammo to enjoy during my "golden years" :)
Ron

Forget scopes, focus on how to mount a reflex optic "red dot" sight. I just watched a TV program about modern elephant hunting, and there in deepest, darkest Africa was a professional hunter with a big bore, English "best" double rifle. With an optic sight...
I know they are great to shoot with but is nothing sacred?
dju

I agree, a luger
Will loose some class if it has a scope mounted.
Let along optical red dot.
But, I belive if done with 100 year old traditions in mind, It can be done tastefully.

Also I belive mounting a scope right on the barrel, is physically an easiest option, but will affect dinamics of the auction, and make glass parts participate in recoil, may not be the best way for long term use. Not to mention a need to alter the springs to accommodate for supper heavy barrel cycling.
Anyone tried to install 16 inch on a P08 will know what I am talking about.

And I thought that scoping a Luger was silly...........just kidding.... :) something that allows me a few more years of semi, almost respectable shooting skill always has my attention.

As nice and easy as it looks, mounting an optical sight(usually a scope in most renditions) will try your patience as to functionality. More barrel weight/mass, more weight/mass on barrel, influences the function of the Luger as we all know. We all have seen the 16" barrels with the forearm on said barrel; sold with scope mount or without, and can be kinda the berries to function, and yet keep the pistol together.

The top of the Luger can be a difficult place for adjustable sights, lost enough of them to have a basic respect for toggle speed environments during operation. That speed resides in the barrel too.

Open red dots are can be made pretty light, might be a candidate if they can handle the movement(gaff). Tube red dots as nice as they are, are heavier.

The old German optic sights(mini scope) on an Arty has some issues in my own opinion, might be doable for those that hope for such....not sure it will be easy.

There were folks here at one time that used Arty Lugers(Lonnie Z.) with red dots, went thru a lot of red dots before he found one that could handle the cycle of the 9mm artillery.......he used to shoot coyotes out of his garden as I recall.

I am blessed with a left master eye that has the oldest cataract. So the old time picture of a carbine with a scope and mount was kinda a compromise for me. It used the large flat behind the sideplate for a removeable mount. In my own way, I bonded a similar mounting system that has two precision pins so and securing mechanism that the scope/mount can be removed from the pistol. The scope or optics of the day sits to the left of the toggle, and up a ways for working the toggle during charging. I have not experimented with a stock on the pistol, only has a 12" narrow tapered(light) barrel. As a pistol, the optics will allow preciseness to placing rounds on a target at longer than semi normal pistol ranges.

Hope someday a professional pistol optic system will come out for a Luger, it will take some R&D............and some patience in operation as well as time at the machines to make something worthwhile. Has no interest to the collector, but us shooters are here too albeit in smaller numbers every year.

I think the barrel mounted optic will work, but lightness will be an asset. Guess one does have the 45acp slug weight working on your side though...........

FWIW

A scope on a luger, ouch!
If you guys want to talk about that, please start another thread! Ugg!

What? No Waffenampt?

Seriously, that is a thing of beauty!

.
wow - pure beauty (please please please - a range report)

If it had a Waffen stamp, I could not afford it!:evilgrin:

Finally made it to the range.
45 degrees, windy, and light rain/mist- great day to stay inside.

But I had improvements to test on two shooters and the .45 to try out- so I did a little shooting.

The .45 works great. I only used 230 gr ball today. Loaded the 7 round mags with 5 rounds- the springs are really strong- so it was easier on "me" and the wood mag base.

Sights are typical luger- i.e. hard to see- especially on a rainy day shooting a black target.
But, the one "group" I fired and measured was about 3" and POI was 2" right and 2" low; which is close enough for me with iron sights.

I could probably do better on a bright, nice day!

One 50 ft. target picture below, the enlaged one with the circle shows the "group". The small - 9mm size- holes are from the other two lugers test fired on this outing.

Anyway, shooting a .45 luger is pretty cool, recoil is not bad, grips are fine. Eugene had fired about 200 rounds and I only fired 35 today. The pistol needs to be fired more to smooth it up and wear it in. I'm happy I chose the 1" longer barrel, I think it gives the pistol to a near perfect balance, not to mention a cool look.

One change/addition I'm going to suggest to Eugene is to put a loop on the magazine base for a lanyard; at $300 per mag - I don't want to drop one! ;)

I will likely also upgrade to the Navy/target rear sight toggle Eugene is working on when they are ready, maybe even test a prototype for him. (Eugene, that is a hint.:) )

Nice group, what was a distance you shot from ?
I do not see that in the post.

Magazine loop ? Drow me a picture i want to see that

50 ft.:)

Nice write up Don, sounds like a keeper :)

Thanks Ed, it is indeed a keeper.
Won't be a safe queen either.

No a safe queen
 

I'd like to see more posts of shooting reports, for a change.

We did not make them to be safe queens, even so they can win a beauty contest, they were meant and build to be working guns.

Shoot on Don...

Good to hear that it ran smooth Don. Give it a good cleaning and BUY MORE BULLETS...

Yes, got to buy more .45 ammo.
I'm shooting a hodge podge of what I have "in stock". I have some US military both ball and match that I have to dig out. Maybe a box of Remington, but all the ammo I have is 5 or 10 or 20 years old or older, so it will be more of an ammo test than a pistol test. ;)

This outing was using the rest of a box of Blazer Brass 230 gr ball ammo.
I have some other odds and ends, but no need to go into any details until the pistol is broken in well and the weather is nicer for shooting- so I can do my part.

Eugene has used 3 or 4 or more brands/types of ammo, maybe he can comment- Rich was asking for details.

We ran following ammo:

Blazzer Brass
Blazzer Aluminum
Federal Brass
Federal Aluminum
Tula Ammo
Wolf Ammo
Fiocchi
Perfecta
Winchester
Seller and Bellot
Remington
UMC
PMC

Agula ( Problem)

And probably something else I can not remember.

It loved steel case and aluminum case, as it is harder then brass
And fast action needs something to grab on to .


It did not love Italian ammo, something to do with rim gap design.
Fiocci was better , Perfecta was worth.
We found out to late and some early guns may not run it well about first 8-10 that were out.
We fixed the problem on the next 10 goign out.
It was not a problem for other rounds, so if you see it, just avoid the ammo.

Agula had a very soft crimp on the bullet, and 2 or 3 out of the mag were jammed because they got pushed in the case to deep. when that happened we dropped Agula out of the test because we were afraid of excessive pressure.

If starting to use new ammo not listed above, test it by pulling un-fired cases out of the action.
And making sure that normal feeding during shooting does not sit the bullets deeper in the case.
If that happens, use different ammo.

Has anyone tried reloads in lugers?

Yes, in 9mm and .30 all the time.
Many posts here on reloads, even a special section.

But that is another whole topic and thread.:eek:

Relevant as I was referring to the lugers discussed in this thread~

I'll try my favorite 200 gr. SWC cast loads in my .45 Luger one of these days soon, however I'm not expecting perfect function with that bullet design and slightly reduced speeds. I have shot some 230 Round Nose reloads thru it, and while it ran correctly they are just a factory duplicate load, so no big surprises there.